William Lane Craig will be debating Lawrence Krauss .
Topic: Is There Evidence for God?
http://www.thegreatdebatencsu.com/
https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=192530664101598
See Dr. William Lane Craig (Christian Philosopher and Theologian from Talbot School of Theology) debate Dr. Lawrence Krauss (Theoretical Physicist from Arizona State University) on "Is There Evidence For God?"
The organizers say, due to limited seating, watch, don’t go.
Update: It was a good debate. I want to choke the audio guys since the sound did not clear up until the summaries but at least I was able to be there. Oh in case you don't have time to watch the entire debate...the answer is yes, there is evidence for God.
Update Deux (11 Slides from Craig's presentation):
Update Trois:
Apparently, Krauss didn't want the debate to end even though it has.
I can understand why Krauss attempts to formulate his position and wrote something afterwards in an attempt to make his point ad nauseum. It was entertaining and sad.
Krauss's response though appears to be a mix between back peddling, saving face and sour grapes. Its understandable because of the results of the debate were quite clear.
BTW, at the end of the debate people were asked to write their vote to the question, based on that debate is there evidence for God? Funny how Krauss didn't mention the results.
The results will tell you who actually won that debate...do you need a hint? I wonder if Krauss will be man enough to admit that he lost the debate entirely.
Anyway, its there for everyone to see to decide for themselves. Craig did a fine job even though George and Krauss are too proud to admit that. To not give him credit for doing his homework and showing up prepared for the day's event is disingenuous to say the very least. Let's see if Craig complains and gripes about Krauss and the debate like a whining child that didn't get chocolate milk, much the same as Krauss did. If I were a betting man, I am not since I like dealing with certainties, I would say Craig will be gracious and kind to have the opportunity to be there. We will leave the gripes and complaints of being "unfair" to the Atheists.
Update Quatre:
- 516 cards turned in
- 286 Dr. Craig made the clearer/better presentation
- 130 Dr. Krauss made the clearer/better presentation
- 100 stated it was a draw
Should be the shortest debate ever.
ReplyDeleteLK: So Willie, do you have any evidence?
WLC: Well, erm... how about this inherently flawed argument?
LK: I'll take that as a 'NO' then. Next!
I thought there was NO evidence for god because a woman, after talking to a snake ate an apple. Then god got all pissy and removed all the evidence of its self from the world?
ReplyDeleteIs this not the Christian worldview?
what is that evidence Dan? please be specific.
ReplyDeleteTypical Dan - he asserts without demonstration.
ReplyDeleteSo, what's this "evidence" for an undetectable, supernatural, immaterial entity, Dan? Put up or shut up.
Guess he went for the latter option... ;-)
ReplyDeleteI added the slides to follow the argument for the people that wish not to listen to the entire debate. Enjoy.
ReplyDeleteAh, yes - the old, oft-debunked 'arguments' for god, trussed up in ill-fitting intellectualese. Mutton dressed as lamb.
ReplyDeleteTwo questions, Dan - if you believe there is evidence for your god, why all the cant about presupposing its existence? If there was real evidence, surely the latter would be unnecessary.
And if you like to deal with certainties, how do you make any decision, ever, given you don't know the future?
Evidence of SuperGod
ReplyDelete1. Everything that exists has an explanation for it's existence.
2.God exists.
3.God has an explanation for his existence, and that is the SuperGod.
Evidence of SuperSuperGod
1. Everything that exists has an explanation for it's existence.
2.SuperGod exists.
3.SuperGod has an explanation for his existence, and that is the SuperSuperGod.
etc
if we assume everything that exists has a cause, doesn't that lead to an infinite chain of causation?
PS: Awesome site, just found it a few days ago and am reading some of the older posts. Favorite commenter, ANTZILLA. His posts are the most entertaining thing I've ever read on the internet.
Big Willie Craig said...
ReplyDelete5 pieces of evidence for God
1. The existence of contingent beings.
1. Everything that exists has an explanation of it's existence (either in it's own nature or in an external cause).
2. The universe exists.
3. The universe has an explanation of it's existence, that explanation is God.
4. Therefore, the explanation of the universe is God.
What a crock. I'd bet he doesn't even bother to support Premise 1 but, even if we grant him that one, Premise 3 is where he fucks it all up. Why is God the explanation? Why can't an explanation be found in the nature of the universe? Because Willie's a believer, that's why. He believes God exists so God MUST be the explanation. Abject question begging.
5 pieces of evidence for God
2. The origin of the universe.
1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2. The universe exists.
3. If the universe has an explanation of it's existence, that explanation is God.
4. Therefore, the explanation of the universe is God.
No prizes for guessing he handwaves away the question of "What caused God?" if Premise 1 is true by claiming God has no beginning, of course he'd simply dismiss any claim of an eternal universe as impossible despite several scientists showing it's eminently possible, a sad, but predictable, double standard. Why the 'If' in Premise 3? I thought Willie figured he'd nailed that question in his first argument - tacit admission that he knows argument 1 has no basis. It's just the same question begging but I guess he figures that if you missed it the first time round you probably won't notice it this time either.
5 pieces of evidence for God
3. The fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.
1. The fine-tuning of the universe is due to either physical necessity, chance, or design.
2. It is not due to either physical necessity or chance.
3. Therefore, it is due to design.
I love the way he skips over the possibility that there isn't any fine-tuning. He also can't support Premise 2 in any meaninful manner, he basically makes the claim based on his personal preference.
5 pieces of evidence for God
4. Objective moral values and duties in the world.
1. If God did not exist, objective moral values and duties would not exist.
2. Objective moral values and duties do exist.
Of course Willie can't account for objectivity from within his inherently subjective Christian worldview but this doesn't stop him making this sort of claim. His argument isn't helped by his failure to demonstrate that it is the Christian God (specifically his interpretation of said God) that is responsible.
5 pieces of evidence for God
5. the historical facts concerning Jesus of Nazareth.
1. There are three established facts about Jesus: his empty tomb, his post-mortem appearances, and the origin of the disciples' belief in his resurrection.
2. The hypothesis "God raised Jesus from the dead" is the best explanation of these facts.
3. The hypothesis "God raised Jesus from the dead" entails that God exists.
4. Therefore, God exists.
And by 'facts', Willie actually means 'unsupported claims'.
1. There are 3 established facts about Harry Potter: his school; Hogwarts, his appearance on the Quidditch pitch, and the origin of his friends belief in his wizarding abilities.
2. The hypothesis "Harry Potter is a wizard" is the best explanation of these 'facts'.
3. The hypothesis "Harry Potter is a wizard" entails that Harry Potter exists.
4. Therefore, Harry Potter exists ... and he's a freaking Wizard!!!!.
MaxFF,
ReplyDeleteI hope you realise your blasmphy.
It's name isn't 'SuperGod'
It goes:
1. Everything that exists has an explanation for it's existence.
2.YHWH (I Am That I Am,) exists.
3.YHWH has an explanation for his existence, and that is the YHWHYHWH
( I Am That I Am,I Am That I Am)
1. Everything that exists has an explanation for it's existence.
2.YHWHYHWH
( I Am That I Am,I Am That I Am)exists.
3.YHWHYHWH has an explanation for his existence, and that is the YHWHYHWHYHWH
( I Am That I Am,I Am That I Am I Am That I Am)
It's important not to piss off the ∞ YHWHs....
Hey DAN?
Someone of intellectually dishonesty would claim to have evidence of an omnipotent and omniscient being who has revealed to us that is has removed ALL evidence of it's self, would it not D.A.N.?
ReplyDeletemaxFF,
One of the funnist things I've seen on the net is:
the Nicene Creed
We believe in one God.
We believe God made everything.
We believe a virgin gave birth.
We believe Jesus suffered, was crucified, died, and was buried.
We believe Jesus rose from the dead after 3 days.
We believe Jesus ascended into Heaven where he sits at the right hand of God.
We believe Jesus will physically return to judge the living and the dead.
We believe in one Church.
We believe in baptism.
We believe in the forgiveness of "sins"
We believe in the resurrection of the dead.
We believe in everlasting judgement and everlasting life.
Q) Do Christians really believe that stuff?
A) Yes, I am afraid they do.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ;) I pitty them really.
The straw poll results are in and updated
ReplyDelete* 516 cards turned in
* 286 Dr. Craig made the clearer/better presentation
* 130 Dr. Krauss made the clearer/better presentation
* 100 stated it was a draw