tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post1120767276848964643..comments2024-03-19T01:46:23.275-04:00Comments on Debunking Atheists: Humanist Religion ReignsD. A. N. http://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comBlogger124125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-958126523179889212011-05-24T09:53:19.479-04:002011-05-24T09:53:19.479-04:00D.A.N. said...
Reynold,
>>You distored w...<b>D.A.N. said... <br /><br /> Reynold,<br /><br />>>You distored what bellecherie said, and you're not honest enough to admit it.</b><br /><br /><i>You're doing it too. You just invoked a moral law or standard that your atheistic worldview cannot back up.</i><br />Even if that was true, which it ain't, how did I twist the words that someone else said, Dan? <br /><br /><i>This is the point and where your worldview breaks down. We need not go further.</i><br />Ever hear of <i>Tu Quoque</i> Dan?<br /><br />I guess youre worldview breaks down because of the fact that your god endorses and commands acts of genocide that, if done by a person's orders, you'd find evil. Then there's the fact that if your god is the "objective standard of morality" then it's morally alright to burn witches to death. <br /><br />If that's no longer the case, please find biblical justification for that, otherwise you're stealing from the atheists worldview.<br /><br /><b>You said that you would let them know that you were hiding jews, thus ensuring their death.</b><br /><i>You ASSUME that it would ensure their death. You're not accounting for my baby Pink.</i><br />You're not accounting for fucking reality here, Dan. Look at the track record. Bottom line, if you were in nazi occupied territory and hiding Jews, the only way to have a chance of keeping them alive would to to throw those Nazi buggers off of their trail. <br /><br /><i>How is that fighting against evil? Well, I named her 'Pink' because that's all you see when you use her. :7)</i><br />Right...ONE person with ONE weapon against an entire NATION??? Are you that batshit? What's to stop them from just bombing the hell out of your house (if all else somehow were to fail)?Reynoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07316048340050664487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-75240742128573924712011-05-19T08:57:21.643-04:002011-05-19T08:57:21.643-04:00Instead of fighting for freedoms because you wish ...<i>Instead of fighting for freedoms because you wish to preserve your life? No that would be wrong. You MUST fight for freedoms, even your own. Its worth dying for.</i><br /><br />Do you know when people fight the hardest, Dan? When they're fighting for something they feel part of - their community, their family, their team, whatever. Something they have a stake in. If everyone fights together for their own freedoms, success is that much easier to achieve.<br /><br /><br /><i>If she chooses not to testify or peruse a conviction?</i><br /><br />When did I even suggest that she would choose not to? You accuse me of making assumptions, then you go and assume that I meant something I didn't even write.<br /><br /><i>I just know my 9 year old can put me down hard, as she has, so it wouldn't take too much to ask for her to fight back when accosted.</i><br /><br />And I'll bet you were really trying to hurt her too, weren't you, Dan? Sure.<br /><br /><i>Do you know why people keep robing banks repeatedly? Because they feel they can GET AWAY WITH IT! If more would scratch and fight back and make it impossible for them there would be less, ...I would hope.</i><br /><br />The trouble is, we live in a society based on entrenched oppression and exploitation that teaches people to be powerless. That's got a lot more to do with why people keep robbing banks and committing rapes and other assaults than a lack of vigilantes on the streets.<br /><br /><i>Also, if you "Settle out of court" for some disclosed amount because he was famous or something like that, you're just as evil.</i><br /><br />And again, you're reading stuff into my comment that wasn't even hinted at.<br /><br /><i>Basically, if you do not feel that your virginity is worth fighting for when someone is trying to TAKE IT FROM YOU then you're wrong, as the Bible says.</i><br /><br />I like your assumption that virginity is the main thing at stake when a person is threatened with rape. It shows just how clueless you are about the subject. Maybe you should chat with some male convicts who have been gang-raped in prison and tell them they should have fought harder...<br /><br /><i>If Rape is indeed a POWER thing, as its been evidenced by science.</i> <br /><br />So you concede this now? What happened to your rampant evolutionist trying to sew his wild oats?<br /><br /><i>Taking the power away is one way to prevent rapes.</i><br /><br />Wrong again. Many rapes are motivated by a desperate frustration and anger born of feelings of powerlessness and disenfranchisement that are a result of social and economic inequalities. The oppressed kick downwards. <br /><br />The way to prevent rapes is to give people back a sense of control over their own lives. Your way is to treat the symptoms, not the causes. And your religion is complicit in the machinery of oppression, because it teaches people to accept the shit that happens to them and to think they are unworthy scum who deserve no better.DormantDragonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09345423282928392517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-84020237471935754782011-05-19T00:56:52.706-04:002011-05-19T00:56:52.706-04:00D.A.N
Where did you get that thing from "mon...D.A.N<br /><br />Where did you get that thing from "monetary settlement"? I told you here many times that my reaction would be reporting the rape and make the rapist pay for his crime by being prosecuted, judged and put behind bars for a very long time. For goodness' sake...bellecheriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14393655793944782045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-25552788648418458632011-05-18T20:35:40.422-04:002011-05-18T20:35:40.422-04:00Bellecherie,
>>If wanting him to face a tri...Bellecherie,<br /><br />>>If wanting him to face a trial and be convicted by a jury and see him being sent to prison for 30 years instead of waiting for a divine punishment against the rapist (that will never come) makes me a whore, so be it.<br /><br />No you're mistaken. I guess I should of stressed a MONETARY settlement. That was what was on my mind when I was saying that. If you send him to prison for 30 years, you're my friend not a whore. :7)D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-52606682838311573482011-05-18T19:44:46.070-04:002011-05-18T19:44:46.070-04:00D.A.N,
>> So there ARE absolutes? Great can...D.A.N,<br /><br />>> So there ARE absolutes? Great can you explain universal and absolutes within your atheistic worldview? Again, you just invoked a moral law or standard that your atheistic worldview cannot back up. This is the point and where your worldview breaks down. We need not go further.<br /><br />Yes, we need to go further. Genocide is wrong and always will be because is wrong to take human lives. But there are people who don’t think that way. Hitler was one of them<br />The genocide in Rwanda where 500.000 people were killed because of an ethnic tension between the tutsis and the hutus. For them, genocide was morally justifiable.<br /><br />For me, it isn’t and never will be. I can be accountable to that. You are the one who can’t – because as I said many times – in the bible (that you claim to be your ultimate authority) there’s genocide endorsed by your god. Since you base your morality on the bible and on god’s words you agree with genocide and every single crime mentioned/incited/endorsed in the bible. <br /><br />>> You're assuming WAY TOO MUCH here. You did not give others and opportunity to come to your aid for screaming and fighting back. You think that others, like loved ones and police, are not fight for you also. You're not alone here. You didn't give yourself enough credit to resist and break away from him, to return to convict him later. Also, if you seek payment afterwards, in the form of a court settlement, then you're simply a whore. Please fight!! <br /><br />Like I said in my example. If I’m at knife point I wouldn’t react because I wouldn’t want to die. I would want to live to put that criminal in jail so that he can pay for his crime. That would be me facing the rapist and fighting back. The police would fight for me doing their job, investigating the rapist and putting him in prison. My family would fight for me by supporting me and being on my side in every step of the way (instead of stoning me to death because I didn’t scream). <br /><br />For argument’s sake: I decide to fight the man who’s trying to rape me and then he kills me. He buries my body in a place where it can’t be found and then runs away, free to rape another women. Did I do any good being dead? No. Because I didn’t live to make him pay for raping me and helping other women from becoming his victims.<br /><br />You may think that god’s judgment is all there is, but I don’t. The human justice is not perfect but it’s all we have. If wanting him to face a trial and be convicted by a jury and see him being sent to prison for 30 years instead of waiting for a divine punishment against the rapist (that will never come) makes me a whore, so be it. <br /><br />At least I’m not a bible thumper who chose to live in ignorance, uses an immoral book as guide for moral conduct and seats on his ass and pray every day asking and begging and pleading to some sky fairy to do everything and solve all his problems for him instead of actually doing something.bellecheriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14393655793944782045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-58387534076074615612011-05-18T19:04:27.994-04:002011-05-18T19:04:27.994-04:00Bellecherie,
>>I would want to live to put ...Bellecherie,<br /><br />>>I would want to live to put the rapist in jail and make him pay for his crime. That would be much more effective.<br /><br />You're assuming WAY TOO MUCH here. You did not give others and opportunity to come to your aid for screaming and fighting back. You think that others, like loved ones and police, are not fight for you also. You're not alone here. You didn't give yourself enough credit to resist and break away from him, to return to convict him later. Also, if you seek payment afterwards, in the form of a court settlement, then you're simply a whore. Please fight!! <br /><br />Evil deserves to lose, it deserves resistance not acceptance. Atheism is acceptance to evil. Atheists allows rapers to win.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-72691184794212102222011-05-18T19:02:36.024-04:002011-05-18T19:02:36.024-04:00DD,
>>What about saving yourself as well? I...DD,<br /><br />>>What about saving yourself as well? Is that wrong in your world?<br /><br />Instead of fighting for freedoms because you wish to preserve your life? No that would be wrong. You MUST fight for freedoms, even your own. Its worth dying for.<br /><br /><b>If you quietly sit idly by and let evil happen, or even worse reign, then you don't deserve to be here.</b><br /><br />>>How do you figure that, when acting in this very fashion apparently, according to you, makes your god worthy of worship?<br /><br />Haha, touché. Its not <i>that</i> which makes Him worthy of worship, but I liked that come back. *tips hat<br /><br />>>Is it more evil for her to be raped than to be murdered? I wouldn't be surprised if you thought that.<br /><br />Both are evil acts, that must be combated.<br /><br />>>What if she's drugged or otherwise rendered unconscious? Is she still guilty of not fighting against evil, according to you?<br /><br />If she chooses not to testify or peruse a conviction? Yes. Unconscious is unconscious, not much fighting can happen but in the courts. I just know my 9 year old can put me down hard, as she has, so it wouldn't take too much to ask for her to fight back when accosted. Its a scary thought, and I don't wish it on anyone. You MUST fight back and make it the most difficult thing that man has ever done, or will ever do. Do you know why people keep robing banks repeatedly? Because they feel they can GET AWAY WITH IT! If more would scratch and fight back and make it impossible for them there would be less, ...I would hope. Also, if you "Settle out of court" for some disclosed amount because he was famous or something like that, you're just as evil.<br /><br />>>You come remarkably close to victim-blaming here.<br /><br />Basically, if you do not feel that your virginity is worth fighting for when someone is trying to TAKE IT FROM YOU then you're wrong, as the Bible says.<br /><br />>>So, it would be your preference to have your wife reduced to a bloody pulp than raped, huh?<br /><br />Not at all. You are assuming a great deal. Like her loosing. Woman are so much stronger then you could ever imagine, especially in danger. Shame on your for giving up that fight.<br /><br />If Rape is indeed a POWER thing, as its been evidenced by science. Then the Bible is right to FIGHT BACK. Taking the power away is one way to prevent rapes. God KNOWS what He is talking about here. They're opportunistic and weak for even thinking of such things. NEVER give them a perceived opportunity. If they feel they have an opportunity to succeed in a rape or murder, then cause doubt or REMOVE that opportunity continually. I speak out of love here.<br /><br />>>Sometimes you just have to fight smarter, not harder..<br /><br />Fighting back is smarter. Quietly being passive until they are through treating you and your body in such horrible way is appalling and wrong. Trust God to be with you, and giving you the advantage over the criminal. Evil will win if we let them. Don't let it. Its another reason why I became a Christian. I want evil to lose.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-43466279454875234382011-05-18T18:02:03.739-04:002011-05-18T18:02:03.739-04:00Reynold,
>>You distored what bellecherie sa...Reynold,<br /><br />>>You distored what bellecherie said, and you're not honest enough to admit it.<br /><br />You're doing it too. You just invoked a moral law or standard that your atheistic worldview cannot back up. This is the point and where your worldview breaks down. We need not go further.<br /><br />>>You said that you would let them know that you were hiding jews, thus ensuring their death.<br /><br />You ASSUME that it would ensure their death. You're not accounting for my baby <a href="http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd139/michsimm/smith_500_10.jpg" rel="nofollow">Pink</a>.<br /><br />How is that fighting against evil? Well, I named her 'Pink' because that's all you see when you use her. :7)D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-68878723225380427082011-05-18T17:50:59.967-04:002011-05-18T17:50:59.967-04:00Bellecherie,
>>When you lie and is dishones...Bellecherie,<br /><br />>>When you lie and is dishonest with the purpose to make others look bad, to harm other people is wrong.<br /><br />Yes, we know you're ASSERTING its wrong but HOW is it wrong?<br /><br />Within your worldview of 'subjective morals' how can anything be right and wrong universally?<br /><br />>>Genocide and the holocaust was, is and always will be a terrible thing.<br /><br />So there ARE absolutes? Great can you explain universal and absolutes within your atheistic worldview? Again, you just invoked a moral law or standard that your atheistic worldview cannot back up. This is the point and where your worldview breaks down. We need not go further.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-29792519039132760812011-05-18T13:42:29.894-04:002011-05-18T13:42:29.894-04:00Dormand Dragon,
That's exactly what I was tr...Dormand Dragon, <br /><br />That's exactly what I was trying to say to D.A.N. In the example I used about me being raped because I didn't want to die I told him I would have no use being dead. I would want to live to put the rapist in jail and make him pay for his crime. That would be much more effective.bellecheriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14393655793944782045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-25667500433240169502011-05-18T11:45:06.186-04:002011-05-18T11:45:06.186-04:00If you are willing to do the wrong thing for self ...<i>If you are willing to do the wrong thing for self preservation. You're wrong.</i><br /><br />What counts as the wrong thing here, Dan? Is it right or wrong, in your book, to allow yourself to be killed in the act of attempting to save others? To thus render yourself useless, and possibly have screwed up your attempted rescue as well? What about firefighters who can't go into a building because it's just too dangerous? Are they wrong? Would it be better if they went in and died? As the saying goes, he who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day...<br /><br /><i>You must understand that I am a military guy.</i><br /><br />And clearly your military training in blind obedience harmonises nicely with your religious observance.<br /><br /><i>If you're willing to die for the freedoms of others then great! If you are willing to save yourself instead, then you're wrong.</i><br /><br />What about saving yourself <i>as well</i>? Is that wrong in your world?<br /><br /><i>If you quietly sit idly by and let evil happen, or even worse reign, then you don't deserve to be here.</i><br /><br />How do you figure that, when acting in this very fashion apparently, according to you, makes your god worthy of worship?<br /><br /><i>Its appalling to think that a woman will just, because she is frightened, not fight against evil.</i><br /><br />Is it more evil for her to be raped than to be murdered? I wouldn't be surprised if you thought that. What if she's drugged or otherwise rendered unconscious? Is she still guilty of not fighting against evil, according to you?<br /><br /><i>As a man, I just cannot relate.</i><br /><br />Well, that much is obvious, at least. You come remarkably close to victim-blaming here.<br /><br /><i>My wife would fight like hell until she breaks every bone in that man's body or breaks every bone in her body trying to fend him off.</i><br /><br />So, it would be your preference to have your wife reduced to a bloody pulp than raped, huh? Is one of these things a greater violation than the other? It's hard to see how. Not saying that either is a good outcome, of course - much better if she succeeded in taking him down or getting away from him - but it would be hard for her to testify and help put her attacker behind bars if she was dead or in a coma. <br /><br />Sometimes you just have to fight smarter, not harder...DormantDragonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09345423282928392517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-1862360955342040482011-05-18T10:11:37.550-04:002011-05-18T10:11:37.550-04:00My point is that if you are not there to FIGHT for...<i>My point is that if you are not there to FIGHT for freedoms (of you and others) then you're wrong. YOU ALWAYS FIGHT AGAINST EVIL. </i><br /><br />And you wonder why so many of us speak out against your religion...<br /><br />Where's your god while all this is going on? Hanging back and letting you do the fighting for him, huh?DormantDragonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09345423282928392517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-16699342512225332012011-05-18T08:18:44.406-04:002011-05-18T08:18:44.406-04:00D.A.N. said...
freddies dead,
>>Oh, and by...D.A.N. said...<br /><br /><i>freddies dead,</i><br /><br />>>Oh, and by what standard do you call God the objective standard of goodness?<br /><br /><i>Revelation and by the impossible of the contrary.</i><br /><br />You could have just admitted you didn't have one. <br /><br />Your claim to revelation requires either omniscience on your part or you must resort to an infinite regress of revelations that support your original revelation. My argument is simple - without being omniscient yourself you could never be 100% certain about either the source or the veracity of the 'revelation'. If you dispute this please show how it is possible.<br /><br />As for the old 'impossibility of the contrary' canard, Reynold has already pointed out that your claim is nothing more than a baseless assertion. The onus is on you to backup this claim and I (and others) have asked time and time again for you to demonstrate how, in principle, the atheist cannot account for morality/logic/etc... - you've never done so. Instead you simply repeat your claim and try to shift the burden of proof. I can only conclude that you can't actually demonstrate the 'impossibility of the contrary' and so I am right to dismiss it.freddies_deadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09688196534481642740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-11563107701102749092011-05-18T02:32:09.707-04:002011-05-18T02:32:09.707-04:00Reynold,
I've read the link you sent me. D.A....Reynold,<br /><br />I've read the link you sent me. D.A.N is a dishonest and lying person for distorting what we say. That's really low. <br /><br />If D.A.N uses the "god's objective stantard of goodness" then he's a very mean person.bellecheriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14393655793944782045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-2091434078066075952011-05-18T00:05:38.565-04:002011-05-18T00:05:38.565-04:00D.A.N. said...
freddies dead,
>>Oh, and ...<b>D.A.N. said... <br /><br /> freddies dead,<br /><br />>>Oh, and by what standard do you call God the objective standard of goodness?</b><br /><br /><i>Revelation and by the impossible of the contrary.</i><br />More baseless assertions without evidence. What makes you think that the "contrary" is impossible? <br /><br /><b>Bellecherie</b> pointed out that biblegod himself ordered genocide in the OT. So again, on what basis in your "worldview" do you find genocide to be wrong then?<br /><br />If killing babies and pregnant women isn't fucking immoral Dan, then what is? <b>That</b> shows the "contrary" right there to your asinine claim that your god is the "objective standard of goodness"!Reynoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07316048340050664487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-47051684947472658872011-05-18T00:00:10.781-04:002011-05-18T00:00:10.781-04:00Dan
If you are willing to do the wrong thing for s...<b>Dan</b><br /><i>If you are willing to do the wrong thing for self preservation. You're wrong. You must understand that I am a military guy.</i><br />I'm sure they'd be proud of how "honest" you are.<br /><br /><i>If you're willing to die for the freedoms of others then great! If you are willing to save yourself instead, then you're wrong.</i><br />Where do you get that "save yourself instead" shit from? You distored what <b>bellecherie</b> said, and you're not honest enough to admit it.<br /><br /><i>If you quietly sit idly by and let evil happen, or even worse reign, then you don't deserve to be here.</i><br />Remember what I had said...I said that I would throw the nazis off the trail. <b>You</b> said that you would let them know that you were hiding jews, thus ensuring their death. <br /><br /><i>If a man is in the frontline fighting and gets scared and runs away (during a war) to leaves his fellow soldiers to fend for themselves, that is a punishable crime, the penalty is death on site. That is in the military code. (Uniform Code of Military Justice, Post Abandonment 885. ART. 85. DESERTION) <br /><br />My point is that if you are not there to FIGHT for freedoms (of you and others) then you're wrong. YOU ALWAYS FIGHT AGAINST EVIL. Its appalling to think that a woman will just, because she is frightened, not fight against evil. As a man, I just cannot relate. My wife would fight like hell until she breaks every bone in that man's body or breaks every bone in her body trying to fend him off. <br /> May 17, 2011 3:23 PM</i><br /><br />Dan, all your blather about "you always fight against evil" doesn't mean a damn thing when one remembers that you would tell the nazis the truth that you were sheltering jews.<br /><br />How in fuck is that fighting against evil?Reynoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07316048340050664487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-15700898569165029432011-05-17T23:51:52.099-04:002011-05-17T23:51:52.099-04:00D.A.N,
>>How can being dishonest and lying ...D.A.N,<br /><br />>>How can being dishonest and lying be universally wrong in your worldview?<br />When you lie and is dishonest with the purpose to make others look bad, to harm other people is wrong. And that’s exactly what you do here. You edit and filter what people say, distorting their words just because you don’t agree with them.<br /><br />>> At least I’m not dishonest and I don’t distort your words to make you look bad. You do that to yourself already.<br /><br />>> You are the one who can’t account for goodness on your own. You need a violent/intolerant god to “tell you” what’s good and what isn’t. If your god tells people to commit infanticide in his name you think this action is justifiable and your god is good and righteous. Well, killing people is not the idea I have of righteousness and goodness, no matter who commanded who to do it.<br /><br /><br />>> (…)you have just invoked a moral law, or standard in raising that claim that your worldview cannot account for.<br /><br />Genocide and the holocaust was, is and always will be a terrible thing. I strongly disagree with what Hitler and his nazi pals did to jews, homosexuals, gypsies, mentally ill people, the physically disabled, political enemies, Jehovah’s witnesses, etc, the “medical experiments” performed in those camps, the mass executions, etc.<br /><br />You can’t account for that, since your “loving god” commanded genocide to be done in his name. So I guess, if there’s someone who would agree with Hitler and his ethnical cleanse that someone would be you, since is god’s will.<br /><br />>> How do I know you don’t care about people? Well, I’ll leave that to your own words:<br /><br /><i>"I do not stone my kids because I have hope for them still (they're babies). If one of my children grew up to be a spit in God's face joyful pedophile of the highest evil...I just might consider that option. Plus I count on the 'good tree will bear good fruit' thingy. If my kid is evil then it speaks volumes of myself. Stoning myself would be the option I would consider in that case."</i><br />In that case, you don’t even care about yourself. The fact you might consider to stone your own children to death if they “grew up to be a spit in god’s face joyful pedophile of the highest evil” is already prove that you don’t care and have no empathy towards other people.<br /><br />Me – on the other hand – would never consider to stone my children to death if they disobeyed me.<br /><br /><br />>> Based on what I see in your comments and posts you do have a high functioning brain, you just don’t use him well/enough.<br /><br />>> I can't believe you say this when your whole worldview attempts to edit God's word with the sole purpose to distort.<br /><br />Am I distorting god’s word when I put – entire passages, with no editing – about the killing of homosexuals, nonbelievers, raped women, disobedient children, men who masturbate, infanticide, genocide, etc, etc, etc,?<br /><br />You are the one who distorts your own “ultimate authority aka the bible” to sugarcoat the fact the god you blindly follow is a violent, intolerant and hateful mythical creature.<br />Quoting what you said about Isaiah endorsing the rape of women, the dashing to pieces of children and the destruction of their houses:<br /><br /><i>Your quote mine of Isaiah 13:16 was obvious. It even reads as a poem. Look at the spacing and form of the words. Its not INSTRUCTIONS as you are claiming. You do understand that this entire thing was a dream of Isaiah's. Just read Isaiah 1:1</i><br /><br />And then I quote another of your sugarcoatings:<br /><br /><i>I said : "So, because it was written as a poem and it was Isaiah’s dream it makes less terrible? No, it doesn't..."</i><br /><br /><i>D.AN. said: "It makes it less INSTRUCTIONAL as you said it was. Don't try to change the subject."</i><br /><br /><i>My answer in another comment: "Less instructional? So it was an instructional dream then? I didn’t change the subject. I said that the fact it was poem of a dream it doesn’t make rape less terrible."</i><br /><br />That’s you distorting your own holy book right there.bellecheriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14393655793944782045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-56143516429251040082011-05-17T19:38:10.813-04:002011-05-17T19:38:10.813-04:00Bellecherie,
>>If the bear killed me at lea...Bellecherie,<br /><br />>>If the bear killed me at least my death wasn't in vain.<br /><br />Great! I am glad we cleared that up. Now back to the rape scenario. Why do you cherish those kids enough to fight the evil trying to hurt them, empathy for others, but would allow evil to rule you, no empathy for self.<br /><br />D.A.N, you are very dishonest and lying person.<br /><br />How can being dishonest and lying be universally wrong in your worldview?<br /><br />>>You always distort our words to try to make us look bad.<br /><br />No need. You do a fine job.<br /><br />>>You can't admit that some people out there do good for goodness' sake and not for the empty promise of going to heaven after they die.<br /><br />Sure, yet they cannot account for the "goodness" part, without God. Otherwise "goodness" is a mere variable to the individual.<br /><br />>>Your bible is as immoral as Mein Kampf.<br /><br />Before we address that you have made some assumptions of your point that you will have to defend before the claim is even valid. Like Razi Zacharias said that I highlight in one of <a href="http://debunkingatheists.blogspot.com/2010/08/sufficient-evidence.html" rel="nofollow">my posts</a>, you have just invoked a moral law, or standard in raising that claim that your worldview cannot account for. That is your presupposition of the claim, is it not? Otherwise, the claim self destructs. <br /><br />>>You - deep down - don't care about other people.<br /><br />And you KNOW this how?<br /><br />>>You have a high functioning brain<br /><br />And you KNOW this how? Oh, er, sorry wrong time. I concede that the evidence is overwhelming. :7)<br /><br />>>An advice: start acting like an adult and stop editing people’s comments with the sole purpose to distort their words.<br /><br />Said the ironic Atheist. I can't believe you say this when your whole worldview attempts to edit God's word with the sole purpose to distort. Ironic meter is about to explode.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-29769908265865717632011-05-17T18:47:47.087-04:002011-05-17T18:47:47.087-04:00D.A.N,
>>I know, when a bear comes into a c...D.A.N,<br /><br />>>I know, when a bear comes into a camp of kids, you do not have to be faster then the bear. You have to be faster then the slowest kid. Have fun living with your failed morality.<br /><br />Here's what I wrote in my comment (the full part):<br /><br />Here's what I said "Since when self-preservation is wrong? Wanting to live is not good? Self preservation is the instinct of every living being. Sometimes we can fight back to save our lives, but other times the best thing to do to save our lives is not fighting back (even police officers say that)."<br /><br /><b>Now the part you chose to ignore: "But when the situation demands we let go of our sense of self-preservation to save others (because of our ability to feel empathy towards others)<br />For example, if I was in the flight 93 knowing I would die anyway I would fight against those terrorists in order to save other people." </b><br /><br />And there's another thing I said in my other comment: "If I had to die to save others, I would."<br /><br />So - using your example of a bear invading a camp of kids - I would never run away and leave the kids alone to be attacked by the bear. Since I know those kids are slower than me I would help them to run away from the bear. I would tell them to run as fast as they could and if they were children not capable of running (because some of them froze) I would carry them. I would save as many kids as I could even if facing the risk of being killed by the bear. If the bear killed me at least my death wasn't in vain. I died saving those children. Why? Because I care about those kids, I don't want their lives to be brutally interrupted, I don't want to see them hurt. Is that being "morally flawed?"<br /><br />D.A.N, you are very dishonest and lying person. You always distort our words to try to make us look bad. You ignore, edit, filter and distort everything we say because you can't admit a godless person can be good, righteous and moral. You choose to live in a little tiny bubble where morality is always objective, comes from god and that only those who have "god in their hearts"/are christians are accountable to morality, goodness and righteousness. You can't admit that some people out there do good for goodness' sake and not for the empty promise of going to heaven after they die. Considering the god you believe and your ultimate authority (the bible) you are the one who can't be accountable to morality, goodness and righteousness. Your bible is as immoral as Mein Kampf. Both of those books endorses/incites horrible acts and tells is god's will. You are accountable to god and god alone. You - deep down - don't care about other people.<br /><br />I'm accountable to myself, to the planet I live, to people and all other living creatures I share this planet with. I'm not accountable to some petty, jealous, vengeful, violent, intolerant, racist, sexist, homophobe, immoral, mythical god that you claim to be good, loving and righteous despite all the bad things were done at his name/at his command.<br /><br />An advice: start acting like an adult and stop editing people’s comments with the sole purpose to distort their words. You have a high functioning brain, so please…do him some justice and stop underrating your intelligence (mine and others who comment your posts’ intelligence included)bellecheriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14393655793944782045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-25760227815521508702011-05-17T18:23:59.514-04:002011-05-17T18:23:59.514-04:00Reynold,
>>I'm sick of you twisting peo...Reynold,<br /><br />>>I'm sick of you twisting people's words around. I'm still pissed that you tried that shit with me a while back. <br /><br />If you are willing to do the wrong thing for self preservation. You're wrong. You must understand that I am a military guy. If you're willing to die for the freedoms of others then great! If you are willing to save yourself <i>instead</i>, then you're wrong. If you quietly sit idly by and let evil happen, or even worse reign, then you don't deserve to be here. <br /><br />If a man is in the frontline fighting and gets scared and runs away (during a war) to leaves his fellow soldiers to fend for themselves, that is a punishable crime, the penalty is death on site. That is in the military code. (Uniform Code of Military Justice, Post Abandonment 885. ART. 85. DESERTION) <br /><br />My point is that if you are not there to FIGHT for freedoms (of you and others) then you're wrong. YOU ALWAYS FIGHT AGAINST EVIL. Its appalling to think that a woman will just, because she is frightened, not fight against evil. As a man, I just cannot relate. My wife would fight like hell until she breaks every bone in that man's body or breaks every bone in her body trying to fend him off.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-24102565839379807212011-05-17T18:02:06.634-04:002011-05-17T18:02:06.634-04:00freddies dead,
>>Oh, and by what standard d...freddies dead,<br /><br />>>Oh, and by what standard do you call God the objective standard of goodness?<br /><br />Revelation and by the impossible of the contrary.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-27018896080936811972011-05-17T17:56:43.993-04:002011-05-17T17:56:43.993-04:00Bellecherie,
>>Since when self-preservation...Bellecherie,<br /><br />>>Since when self-preservation is wrong? Wanting to live is not good? Self preservation is the instinct of every living being.<br /><br />I know, when a bear comes into a camp of kids, you do not have to be faster then the bear. You have to be faster then the slowest kid. Have fun living with your failed morality. *PshawD. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-8388524690313119752011-05-17T07:05:05.750-04:002011-05-17T07:05:05.750-04:00D.A.N. said...
Freddies dead,
>>Please dem...D.A.N. said...<br /><br /><i>Freddies dead,</i><br /><br />>>Please demonstrate in principle that objective morality is impossible in an atheistic worldview or withdraw your claim.<br /><br /><i>I thought I have bit.ly/assmorals</i><br /><br />You thought wrong. You simply made the presupp assertion that morality requires your God. Not once do you demonstrate that it is impossible for atheists to account for objective morality. It's another common presupp dodge - make an assertion and then shift the burden of proof.<br /><br />You also failed to answer my objections at the time:<br /><br />freddies_dead said...<br /><br />Presupp rubbish.<br /><br />How do you even account for objectivity from within your inherently subjective Christian worldview?<br /><br />It's always amusing to see a moral relativist telling other people there morals are relative...<br /><br />Murder is wrong ... unless God does/commands it<br />Lying is wrong ... unless God does/command it<br />etc... etc...<br /><br />Is God good because there's a truly objective standard by which to measure or is he good because he dictates what is good?<br /><br />If it's the former then something must exist apart from God which, of course, makes God unnecessary. If it's the latter then your morality is no less subjective than you claim atheist morality to be.<br />June 9, 2010 2:37 AM <br /><br />All you could manage was that whole "God is the objective standard" rubbish....<br /><br />>>Is God's nature 'good' simply because it's God's nature or can it be measured against a truly objective standard of 'goodness'?<br /><br /><i>How is that possible if God is that objective standard of 'goodness'. Everything MUST be measured against Him. He is the object in objective.</i><br /><br />See, here you go again, trying to paint the nature of a concious entity as an objective standard (and displaying your ignorance on the concept of objectivity i.e. mind-independent)<br /><br />Oh, and by what standard do you call God the objective standard of goodness?<br /><br />Any chance you could actually answer this time? Or can I just expect another dodge?freddies_deadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09688196534481642740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-19342381739949815012011-05-17T02:46:45.088-04:002011-05-17T02:46:45.088-04:00Dan
Remember, by not trying to kill that rapist yo...<b>Dan</b><br /><i>Remember, by not trying to kill that rapist you are ALLOWING him to live to rape others.</i><br />That screws up your god then, Dan...how many rapes does he allow each and every day by just allowing the rapist to live???<br /><br /><i>Good luck with that morality.</i><br />Right back at you.<br /><br /><i>We could've expected that from someone who uses such an immoral guide as self preservation, over others safety, for their moral conduct.</i><br />Dan...didn't you read what <b>bellecherie</b> said?<br /><br /><i>If I had to die to save others, I would</i>?<br /><br />So what do you do? <br /><br />1) You outright ignore it as juding by your previous statement above<br /><br />2) You then reason that since she mentioined that she'd die to save other's <b>lives</b> that must somehow mean that she's <b>not</b> willing to risk her life for other's <b>freedoms</b>. <br /><br />You act like she outright <b>said</b> that! <br /><br />You word-twisting, lying fuck, Dan.<br /><br />Christ, I'm sick of you twisting people's words around. I'm still pissed that you <a href="http://tinyurl.com/DanLies" rel="nofollow">tried that shit with me</a> a while back. <br /><br /><b>bellecherie</b>, just read the comment in that link and the ones before and after it...see how long it takes for me to get him to be truthful.Reynoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07316048340050664487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-41406237867060428982011-05-17T00:15:46.092-04:002011-05-17T00:15:46.092-04:00D.A.N,
>> No. You place evil in charge that...D.A.N,<br /><br />>> No. You place evil in charge that's all. You place evil in charge of you. You give them authority over you. I would never do that. I teach my kids never to do that. You're afraid, I get it. We are not.<br /><br />The guilt of a rape doesn’t lie on the victim; it lies on the rapist. He’s the one committing the crime. A rape victim is terrified and the only thing she/he thinks about is getting out of that terrible situation alive. That’s it. It’s the instinct of survival. <br /><br />If I was being raped on gun (or knife point) I wouldn’t react. Why? Because I want to live. Because I would have no use being dead. I would live to report my rape, to help the police in the investigation and do everything in my power to condemn the rapist so he can pay for his crime in jail. I would be helping making the society and the place I live safer. That would be me fighting back. The one who laughs last is the one who laughs best.<br /><br /><br />>> Hmm. Matthew 16:26 comes to mind. <br /><br />I don’t believe in souls either.<br /><br /><br />>> You're not an American are you?<br />No, I’m brazilian (thankfully)<br /><br />>> They are merely guilty of not having self respect. <br />Really? I’m being serious this time. Go to a rape victims’ support group and tell them that. Tell them they were partially responsible and guilty for the crime committed against them and then tell me the outcome.<br /><br /><br />>> I teach my daughter to fight and scream until she cannot fight anymore or is killed. NEVER give in or give up. Its why life is worth fighting for.<br /><br />Life is worth fighting for, that’s why reacting and fighting back is not always a good idea. Unless you are suicidal and wants to die as soon as possible. <br /><br />>> Neither. I would give him my watch, my wallet, the keys to my van. I would even sign the title of the van over to him. I would even drive to the ATM and give him a couple of hundred dollars to help him out. <br /><br />My life is more important than any material possessions. But you bet that I would report the thief. I wouldn’t even demand to have my things back. But he would have to pay for the crime he committed. I wouldn’t let him go unpunished. <br /><br /><br />>> You would be guilty of breaking the first and second commandment also.<br /><br />What this has to do with the first and second commandments? <br /><br />The only commandments that worth something are: honor your father and mother (if they deserve the respect); not to kill, not to commit adultery, not to steal and not to lie (this last one is a little difficult not to break, since everybody lies).<br /> <br />The other commandments involving god are not important to me. <br /><br />>> Remember, by not trying to kill that rapist you are ALLOWING him to live to rape others. Good luck with that morality. We could've expected that from someone who uses such an immoral guide as self preservation, over others safety, for their moral conduct.<br /><br />Why should I kill him? To be no different from him? I would make sure he would pay for his crimes by being arrested, judged, and condemned and spending most of his life in jail. Putting him in jail it would be making a favor to the society.<br /><br />If he killed me because I screamed or reacted he could dump my body in a place no one would ever find (and you know…no body no crime) he would be free to make new victims. Again, I would have no use being dead. <br /><br />Since when self-preservation is wrong? Wanting to live is not good? Self preservation is the instinct of every living being. Sometimes we can fight back to save our lives, but other times the best thing to do to save our lives is not fighting back (even police officers say that). <br /><br />But when the situation demands we let go of our sense of self-preservation to save others (because of our ability to feel empathy towards others)<br />For example, if I was in the flight 93 knowing I would die anyway I would fight against those terrorists in order to save other people.bellecheriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14393655793944782045noreply@blogger.com