tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post2636001203054368710..comments2024-03-19T01:46:23.275-04:00Comments on Debunking Atheists: Roman Catholic Church or Sola ScripturaD. A. N. http://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comBlogger74125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-9857986840783190972009-04-26T21:31:00.000-04:002009-04-26T21:31:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10659212150994482317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-84734869371642948742009-04-16T17:05:00.000-04:002009-04-16T17:05:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10659212150994482317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-2026153736569165192009-04-12T13:41:00.000-04:002009-04-12T13:41:00.000-04:00Reynold,where in the Constitution does it mention ...Reynold,<BR/><BR/><I>where in the Constitution does it mention or imply Christ, or God?</I><BR/><BR/>Why just the Constitution? If we are talking about the founding fathers then lets take all their writing in account to determine if they wanted to continue to worship and placed those previsions in the Constitution to <B>prevent</B> the government from making laws <B>against</B> Christianity.<BR/><BR/>The poetically brilliant words of the Declaration of Independence comes to mind. <BR/><BR/>"WHEN in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to desolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."<BR/><BR/>Needless to say Bush and his crew of the Neo-Cons changed those rights to inalienable rights.<BR/><BR/>Don't forget to watch <A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/USunderGOD" REL="nofollow">tinyurl.com/USunderGOD</A> also.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-84805878013956363532009-04-12T06:22:00.000-04:002009-04-12T06:22:00.000-04:00I believe the hostility towards religion these day...<I>I believe the hostility towards religion these days are far from what the Founding Fathers wanted. Fair? We are indeed a secular nation these days and that is why we are drifting away from our constitution daily. BTW I do still consider myself a constitutionalist.</I><BR/>Dan, where in the Constitution does it mention or imply Christ, or God?Reynoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07316048340050664487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-56811331694331739062009-04-08T18:18:00.000-04:002009-04-08T18:18:00.000-04:00tinyurl.com/USunderGODtinyurl.com/USunderGODD. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-58300076883180960252009-04-08T18:11:00.000-04:002009-04-08T18:11:00.000-04:00To back up my first claim I will add this.To back up my <A HREF="http://debunkingatheists.blogspot.com/2009/04/roman-catholic-church.html?showComment=1239049380000#c746615720422772096" REL="nofollow">first claim</A> I will add <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ8pi3BQJCs&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fconservativemeanderings.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F03%2F13%2Frediscovering-god-in-america-dvd%2F&feature=player_embedded" REL="nofollow">this</A>.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-61293598331190897542009-04-07T22:57:00.000-04:002009-04-07T22:57:00.000-04:002.71828 18284...Damn pagans.2.71828 18284...<BR/><BR/>Damn pagans.FrodoSaveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15224011199139875343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-41358089349358044212009-04-07T22:46:00.000-04:002009-04-07T22:46:00.000-04:00But, but if you add that to my score the number is...<I>But, but if you add that to my score the number is irrational....</I><BR/><BR/>...and that is inappropriate <I>how</I>?<BR/><BR/>(Right now, I'm trying to decide what specific religions/sects would get 2.7182818..., and 1.618034...; I don't think any qualify for <I>i</I>, but √2 is available...)<BR/><BR/>--<BR/>StanStan, the Half-Truth Tellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04260266801557543879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-24450973827973580112009-04-07T21:50:00.000-04:002009-04-07T21:50:00.000-04:00"Such praise! Really, I'd give them an additional ..."Such praise! Really, I'd give them an additional fractional amount, purely for entertainment purposes. Say, an extra 0.1415926535898 or so..."<BR/><BR/>But, but if you add that to my score the number is irrational....<BR/><BR/>The Debunking Atheist<BR/>Debunking Theists since 1971Froggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972110380349786742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-81383861241545523222009-04-07T21:04:00.000-04:002009-04-07T21:04:00.000-04:00So, on a scale of 1-10 I give [the Roman Catholic ...<I>So, on a scale of 1-10 I give [the Roman Catholic Church] the highest mark that I give any church and that is a 3.</I><BR/><BR/>Such praise! Really, I'd give them an additional fractional amount, purely for entertainment purposes. Say, an extra 0.1415926535898 or so...<BR/><BR/>--<BR/>StanStan, the Half-Truth Tellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04260266801557543879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-52165254712687853252009-04-07T21:02:00.000-04:002009-04-07T21:02:00.000-04:00If our works count in our Salvation, as the Mormon...<I>If our works count in our Salvation, as the Mormons and RCC claims, then what may I ask was the purpose of Christ dying on that Cross?</I><BR/><BR/>Dude, it's <I>your</I> religion. We haven't the slightest clue why you all think it was "necessary" to have your man-god be killed and become a zombie, but only several thousand years after the "fall," and with all this a nonetheless incomplete act, awaiting the rise to power of the devil's child, the unification of the various world governments, and a massive bloody battle...<BR/><BR/><I>[W]hat may I ask was the purpose of Christ dying on that Cross?</I><BR/><BR/>Damned if I know. (Damned either way, evidently.)<BR/><BR/>Tell you what; you do some research -- which is, of course, nothing more than looking for sources who corroborate your preconceived notions, dismissing outright any which dissent -- and let us know when you find an article, or a set of articles, which supports what you already believe.<BR/><BR/>In fact, why bother? Just give us a list of what you believe, and ignore anything that doesn't comport with those beliefs. Find any supporting sources you feel necessary, and dismiss any others. Why do you even <I>need</I> the bible, since you already know everything you need to know?<BR/><BR/>--<BR/>StanStan, the Half-Truth Tellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04260266801557543879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-83062278984686960272009-04-07T20:10:00.000-04:002009-04-07T20:10:00.000-04:00Dan,"RCC states that it is not the Scriptures, nor...Dan,<BR/><BR/>"RCC states that it is not the Scriptures, nor tradition, nor the early church fathers, nor anything other than the Church’s Magisterium, personified in the pope, that is the ultimate and final authority and standard of truth. Now does that sound right?"<BR/><BR/>No you're not right. Catholics have the samebible you do, with a couple old testament ooks added that you all threw out.<BR/><BR/>This is kinda hairy because I do not defend any one Chritian church's doctrine or Dogma over any other, but, frankly, if I had to chose one I feel the catholics are slightly more rational than all the others.<BR/><BR/>Also, The pope, cardinals, bishops, etc have extrordinary credentials in most cases. Some are even scientists.<BR/><BR/>That, along with the fact that they make up over half of all the Christians of the world leads me to believe that the leaders take their jobs very seriously rather than the thousands of itinerent preachers running around this country with no formal education whatsoever claiming they are speaking the word of God.<BR/><BR/>The catholic hierarchy speaks from two thousand years of experience and they admit they have made mistakes.<BR/><BR/>So, on a scale of 1-10 I give them the highest mark that I give any church and that is a 3.<BR/><BR/>The Debunking Atheist<BR/>Debunking Theism since 1971Froggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972110380349786742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-35779151085298661232009-04-07T20:07:00.000-04:002009-04-07T20:07:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Froggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972110380349786742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-58429425851994533162009-04-07T20:00:00.000-04:002009-04-07T20:00:00.000-04:00Dan: You do know that "all you have to do...Dan:<BR/><BR/> You do know that "all you have to do is accept the free gift" is still based on a "work," don't you?Pvblivshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17931937272948538181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-72653658904689855582009-04-07T19:33:00.000-04:002009-04-07T19:33:00.000-04:00Update: RCC states that it is not the Scriptures, ...Update: <BR/><BR/>RCC states that it is not the Scriptures, nor tradition, nor the early church fathers, nor anything other than the Church’s Magisterium, personified in the pope, that is the ultimate and final authority and standard of truth. Now does that sound right?<BR/><BR/>Sola ScripturaD. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-87630098524393421542009-04-07T19:06:00.000-04:002009-04-07T19:06:00.000-04:00Dan,If people are foreordained, or predetermined, ...Dan,<BR/>If people are foreordained, or predetermined, then why is it so important to instill your religion in your kids?<BR/><BR/>No matter what you do, they are already chosen or not chosen?<BR/><BR/>I mean this as an honest question.<BR/><BR/>The Debunking Atheist<BR/>Debunking Theism since 1971Froggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972110380349786742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-11036572383148264892009-04-07T19:03:00.000-04:002009-04-07T19:03:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Froggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972110380349786742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-90671543537694798412009-04-07T18:54:00.000-04:002009-04-07T18:54:00.000-04:00Chris,If our works count in our Salvation, as the ...Chris,<BR/><BR/>If our works count in our Salvation, as the Mormons and RCC claims, then what may I ask was the purpose of Christ dying on that Cross? What you are claiming then is that Christ on the Cross wasn't enough. More is needed?<BR/><BR/>Also, if you haven't, please listen to the lecture on <A HREF="http://debunkingatheists.blogspot.com/2009/03/foreordination-and-human-responsibility.html" REL="nofollow">Foreordination</A>.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-6250717395994568192009-04-07T08:54:00.000-04:002009-04-07T08:54:00.000-04:00Geert A,Good comment. I think that if there was a...Geert A,<BR/>Good comment. I think that if there was actually any religious cohesiveness in electing a fundamentalist candidate, Mike Huckabee would have won by a landslide.<BR/>As a former Govenor he had everything needed, including being a very likeable person and able to connect well with any audience, to at least capture the republican nomination. <BR/><BR/>Americans pay a lot of lip service to religious convictions but the vast majority are very wary of a person who makes their decisions based on what their "God" tells them. <BR/><BR/>There is a Muslim pilot who is facing criminal charges because instead of using his experience in an an emergency, he prayed while the plane crashed.<BR/><BR/>The movement of the Religious Right that gained momentum in the eighties crashed and burned with George Bush.<BR/><BR/>We have always had a secular government here but our society is increasingly secular as recent studies have shown.Froggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972110380349786742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-53252235450999402212009-04-07T08:35:00.000-04:002009-04-07T08:35:00.000-04:00Dan,"I view secularism as a doctrine that rejects ...Dan,<BR/>"I view secularism as a doctrine that rejects religion and religious considerations."<BR/>And:<BR/><BR/>"I believe the hostility towards religion these days are far from what the Founding Fathers wanted."<BR/><BR/>Many fundamentalist Christians are dominionists including your friend, Sye.<BR/>Fundies have and are, even as I write this, trying to get their religion sposored by the state in the public schools.<BR/>They, and you are not constitutionalists even though the first amendment guarantees in writing your right to worship as you choose.<BR/><BR/>The founders knew they were dealing with thirteen mutually exclusive mini theocracies. They all wanted "their" "God" to be wrshipped by all, even though they were all supposedly Christians. <BR/><BR/>I cannot imagine the grief that would have ensued had the bible been chosen as our governing document.Froggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972110380349786742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-14084752041982582652009-04-07T08:21:00.000-04:002009-04-07T08:21:00.000-04:00Dan,I have seen you use the statement,"absence of ...Dan,<BR/>I have seen you use the statement,<BR/>"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" on quite a few occasions, especially when you have dug yourself a hole you can't get out of.<BR/>I don't think you understand what, in fact, that means.<BR/>"Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence" means it's not a fact until proven otherwise. <BR/>Thus, when you make that statement you are merely stating that something could possibly be true, the same as one can say that psychic abilities could possibly be true or Islam could actually be the one true religion. Many Muslims believe that there is another prophet to be born who will show that Allah Of Islam is the one true God, and yes, that could possibly be true.Froggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972110380349786742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-73667323984527205052009-04-07T03:42:00.000-04:002009-04-07T03:42:00.000-04:00Dan,The Founding Fathers did not want to push one ...Dan,<BR/><BR/><I>The Founding Fathers did not want to push one religion over another for their government.</I><BR/><BR/>Exactly. That, and nothing else, is the goal of secularism.<BR/><BR/><I>I view secularism as a doctrine that rejects religion and religious considerations.</I><BR/><BR/>You view that wrongly. Secularism is the way a state can guarantee the article 18 in the Universal Declaration of Human rights. Please look it up. Also please look up the meaning of "secularism" in a good dictionary.<BR/><BR/><I>I believe the hostility towards religion these days are far from what the Founding Fathers wanted.</I><BR/><BR/>Fist, don't confuse secularism with atheism. <BR/>Second, don't confuse atheism and agressive hostility towards religion.<BR/>As an agnostic atheist, I think <I>all</I> religions are based on lies and easily lead to abuse when they get in power. But as a secular humanist, I will defend you fiercely if you are threatened in your religious freedom, as per art. 18 of the UDHR. <BR/><BR/>Believe me, <I>you got most atheists on your side in this</I>. Although I cannot tell you how an atheist must behave, it's not a doctrine or a religion, I can tell you how a secular humanist should behave.<BR/><BR/>Ask yourself the question: am I hostile against atheists on this site? So is it possible to disagree fiercly and not be hostile?<BR/><BR/><I>Fair? We are indeed a secular nation these days and that is why we are drifting away from our constitution daily. BTW I do still consider myself a constitutionalist.</I><BR/><BR/>No, you're not a pure secular nation anymore.<BR/><BR/>Your Christian politicians put "God" in your constitution, and thus discriminating against agnostics, atheists, Bhuddhists, Shintou, polytheists like Hindu's, Sikh, and many other no-God or no-single-God worldviews.<BR/><BR/>Even most Muslims would not agree with your wording, as is is an insult to put Allah in a lowly human-made law like that.<BR/><BR/>It's not a disaster, but it <I>is</I> a breach in the original setup of your constitution.<BR/><BR/><I>I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvres to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.</I><BR/>-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, 1799Geert A.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06936401274628873383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-26544032978838813142009-04-06T23:06:00.000-04:002009-04-06T23:06:00.000-04:00This is exactly how I read these passages without ...<I>This is exactly how I read these passages <B>without the gymnastics</B>...</I> (as with before, emphasis mine)<BR/><BR/>What you have done, Dan, is <I>exactly</I> the gymnastics you have denied. You had a preconceived notion that the bible is inerrant, and when you were presented with an apparent contradiction -- especially through application of a "plain reading of the text" -- you actively sought a resolution which confirmed your preconception.<BR/><BR/>You didn't just perform gymnastics, you successfully contorted yourself such that you could, and did, perform autofellatio.<BR/><BR/>No gymnastics... Please.<BR/><BR/>--<BR/>StanStan, the Half-Truth Tellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04260266801557543879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-55226058775384147852009-04-06T23:05:00.000-04:002009-04-06T23:05:00.000-04:00without the gymnastics. What gymnastics? It flat ...<I>without the gymnastics. </I><BR/><BR/>What gymnastics? It flat out says YHWH will judge you according to your works. It plainly says "work out your salvation". I put it to you that you are the one doing the gymnastics to fit YHWH into your own presuppositions.Chris Mackeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05959441215025867286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-26794593813037624822009-04-06T22:36:00.000-04:002009-04-06T22:36:00.000-04:00Check this video of Dr. James White blasting the P...Check this video of Dr. James White blasting the Papacy during a debate vs. Catholic apologists here: <BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlQZXjjWZZsDarrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12757150483103267411noreply@blogger.com