tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post4056016035136661578..comments2024-03-19T01:46:23.275-04:00Comments on Debunking Atheists: What is Truth?D. A. N. http://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-37432072462819574442010-02-10T23:08:14.463-05:002010-02-10T23:08:14.463-05:00Hang on a second Dan you origanlly claimed.
>...Hang on a second Dan you origanlly claimed.<br /><br /> >>"Where the Bible has seemingly contradicted science in the past, the scientists have found that they were in error in later days."<<<br /><br />This vastly different to >>scientists have found that they were in error in later days about the Bible claims<<<br /><br />examples that the bible was right and science was wrong is what your supposed to be presenting.<br /><br /><br /><br />Tricky,Tricky DanANTZILLAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588266412434898900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-71119781741246305592010-02-10T18:48:50.420-05:002010-02-10T18:48:50.420-05:00A post would be great thanks for effort of backing...A post would be great thanks for effort of backing up you claims.ANTZILLAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588266412434898900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-62859865270703090112010-02-10T17:12:46.837-05:002010-02-10T17:12:46.837-05:00Ant,
>>has your "A" game got any ...Ant,<br /><br />>>has your "A" game got any examples of this claim yet? (scientists have found that they were in error in later days about the Bible claims) <br /><br />I appreciate that you keep asking but I haven't thought on how to approach that question yet. I thought about just doing a post about it or just address it and move on. I am thinking about it though and I haven't blown it off just yet. I think a post would do a better job of addressing it though.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-71415104337280528072010-02-10T01:51:51.957-05:002010-02-10T01:51:51.957-05:00Dan you claim
>>"Where the Bible has s...Dan you claim <br />>>"Where the Bible has seemingly contradicted science in the past, the scientists have found that they were in error in later days."<<<br /><br />has your "A" game got any examples of this claim yet?ANTZILLAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588266412434898900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-27293995558115852122010-02-09T22:40:21.291-05:002010-02-09T22:40:21.291-05:00>>If I end up in Hell, it's your fault, ...>>If I end up in Hell, it's your fault, Dan, for not paying attention to me.<br /><br />Well, obviously I disagree with your viewpoint and I thought that was a given. You going to hell may be my fault since I do need to warn you of your impending doom (Ezekiel 3:17-18). Although, I feel I have warned you multiple times but if you feel that I should be to blame for you going to hell then just bear with me while I witness to you many more times. Now sinner, please repent and trust in our Lord Jesus Christ with your heart mind and soul for your salvation. <br /><br />>>That should give you pause while you're tuning your harp. <br /><br />It may indeed, somehow God will help me with that though, as promised. I have no idea how God will make things tolerable because with all the ongoing thoughts of my Mom in hell right now kinda sucks. You will be just another one of the people on my long list that wouldn't listen to warnings, including every single one of my family members. Sad.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-35679927434212678512010-02-08T09:40:02.587-05:002010-02-08T09:40:02.587-05:00??
If I end up in Hell, it's your fault, Dan,...??<br /><br />If I end up in Hell, it's <i>your</i> fault, Dan, for not paying attention to me. That should give you pause while you're tuning your harp.zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-82749789757822578222010-02-08T06:59:47.725-05:002010-02-08T06:59:47.725-05:00??zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-36722577846491446202010-01-30T05:48:43.455-05:002010-01-30T05:48:43.455-05:00On the mustard seed problem, I take a view in betw...On the mustard seed problem, I take a view in between Reynold and Dan.<br /><br />The fact that the mustard seed is not the smallest of all seeds on Earth, or even the smallest of all seeds in Israel two thousand years ago, does show that there is at least one statement in the Bible which is only true within a certain constrained context- in this case, cultivated plants in Israel- even though it was not qualified as referring to this limited context.<br /><br />Thus, this statement is not universally true, or even true within Israel, when taken literally. This is a good warning for literalists: statements in the Bible must all be taken with a grain of salt, and the possibility considered that they are only true within a particular context, or simply parables intended to make a point but not to be taken literally.<br /><br />This does not mean that the Bible could not be the Word of God- but it does mean that <i>if</i> the Bible is the Word of God, then God meant to show us a path, not the truth- He meant us to see and decide for ourselves what the truth is.<br /><br />Of course, it might also be the case that the Bible is the work of people, who also meant to show us a path. Again, it's up to us to decide if we want to take this path, or explore other paths, or just go cross country through the brush.zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-45501240855589817082010-01-29T18:44:47.199-05:002010-01-29T18:44:47.199-05:00Dan you claim
>>"Where the Bible has s...Dan you claim <br />>>"Where the Bible has seemingly contradicted science in the past, the scientists have found that they were in error in later days."<<<br /><br />Any luck finding examples of this yet?ANTZILLAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588266412434898900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-45056440083766973582010-01-29T18:12:25.917-05:002010-01-29T18:12:25.917-05:00>>Uh, Dan, since when is Zilch Steve?
Sorr...>>Uh, Dan, since when is Zilch Steve? <br /><br />Sorry Scott. That was the second time I was wrong in my life. It won't happen again. <br /><br />>>and there are even quite a few orchids native to Israel. <br /><br />Good point but not Vanilla for cultivation. That was <b>my</b> point. I think, though it may be wrong, my point still stands as a feasible explanation as to the mustard seed dilemma.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-20046625529171412062010-01-29T15:43:04.664-05:002010-01-29T15:43:04.664-05:00Reynold- not that it makes any difference for your...Reynold- not that it makes any difference for your point, but you don't have to go to the New World to find orchids- they are found on every continent except Antarctica, and there are even quite a few <a href="http://www.pbase.com/ilanbt/wild_orchids" rel="nofollow">orchids native to Israel.</a>zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-23035366371907245502010-01-29T11:17:53.389-05:002010-01-29T11:17:53.389-05:00Dan
Well off the top of my head, without any homew...<b>Dan</b><br /><i>Well off the top of my head, without any homework on the subject, maybe it was in context as to familiar cultivated seeds of the times and back then the analogy of orchids would of fallen on deaf ears since no one cultivated orchids back then. The meaning would of been lost.</i><br /> <br />Not so. Orchid seeds still existed, even if they weren't cultivated.<br /><br />All Christ would have had to do is mention that the orchid seed is the "least of the seeds that the people in this land know of" and his meaning would still have been clear. That, and it would have doubled as a prophetic statement, once orchids were found in the New World.<br /><br />Sorry, but "presuppositions" have nothing to do with it.Reynoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07316048340050664487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-20774282850113303202010-01-29T08:46:25.551-05:002010-01-29T08:46:25.551-05:00Dan, you say: First, thanks to Steve, I did not k...Dan, you say: <i>First, thanks to Steve, I did not know that Monkey was Kaitlyn! Duh and whew, at least I know who I am dealing with so moving on.</i><br /><br />Uh, Dan, since when is Zilch Steve? You can't move on until you acknowledge with whom you are dealing. And I have a very nice bridge to offer you. In the wee hours of the morning, it's kinda spacey when you're headed towards Hayward up that ramp that looks like it shoots to the sky and ends there, but I'll give you a very good price for it.zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-70004724104972750362010-01-28T23:03:14.591-05:002010-01-28T23:03:14.591-05:00See: ThisSee: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_fiction" rel="nofollow">This</a>Yaegerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08639306782444621435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-43396483506796391312010-01-28T17:24:20.352-05:002010-01-28T17:24:20.352-05:00Dan you claim
>>"Where the Bible has s...Dan you claim <br />>>"Where the Bible has seemingly contradicted science in the past, the scientists have found that they were in error in later days."<<<br /><br />Got any of those examples of this yet?ANTZILLAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588266412434898900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-71198896433249169662010-01-28T17:13:13.680-05:002010-01-28T17:13:13.680-05:00'Let me show you why you shouldn't read th...<b>'Let me show you why you shouldn't read the Bible like Aesop's fables. Look in Hosea 1:1, see the time line, the Bible talks about specific and exacting historical events with details of surroundings and time frame. People say "You can't believe the Bible it has a bunch of stories."<br /><br />Fantasy stories don't include details like the Bible which should be taken as fact.</b><br /><br />I want you to watch Forrest Gump. Start from chapter 1, see the time line, the movie talks about specific and exacting historical events with details of surroundings and time frame. People say "You can't believe Forrest Gump, it has a bunch of stories.<br /><br />Fantasy stories don't include details like the Forrest Gump which should be taken as fact.Debunkey Monkeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15355896606457674317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-63111032096019543532010-01-28T17:05:47.369-05:002010-01-28T17:05:47.369-05:00"O'rly? Let me recommend a good book to y...<b>"O'rly? Let me recommend a good book to you Kaitlyn, I added it to my recommended list, its called "Annals of the World". "</b><br /><br />Wow, Dan. Asking me to read a book by a Bible literalist in which he asserts, among other things, that Genesis is a true account of history in order for you to prove that the Bible is true, are you serious?<br /><br />Dan, it's all make believe. The science is in; Genesis never happened, miracles don't happen, and prayer has the healing power of a similarly administered placebo.Debunkey Monkeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15355896606457674317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-6185661824089766392010-01-28T15:34:24.347-05:002010-01-28T15:34:24.347-05:00Reynold,
>>The orchid is the "least&qu...Reynold,<br /><br />>>The orchid is the "least" of all seeds. <br /><br />Well off the top of my head, without any homework on the subject, maybe it was in context as to familiar cultivated seeds of the times and back then the analogy of orchids would of fallen on deaf ears since no one cultivated orchids back then. The meaning would of been lost. <br /><br />Yes, today we cultivate Vanilla, quite the difficult and most expensive flavor or spice I might add, and we are aware of the size of those seeds but the Bible gives many examples of relevant references of the times. But I am sure that just is not a good enough explanation because of both of our presuppositions on this subject. It makes perfect sense with a little faith but utter nonsense with complete distrust and contempt towards the Bible.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-69147968441304345632010-01-28T15:21:26.906-05:002010-01-28T15:21:26.906-05:00Yaeger,
>>What if the bible was simply a bo...Yaeger,<br /><br />>>What if the bible was simply a book of fantasy meant to entertain akin to Harry Potter? <br /><br />I have said it before but it is worth repeating.<br /><br />'Let me show you why you shouldn't read the Bible like Aesop's fables. Look in Hosea 1:1, see the time line, the Bible talks about specific and exacting historical events with details of surroundings and time frame. People say "You can't believe the Bible it has a bunch of stories." <br /><br />Fantasy stories don't include details like the Bible which should be taken as fact.<br /><br />The principle point here is that God communicated through prophets and was specific about the details. God inspired the Bible and we know we should take it as truth, not fiction, because it is written plainly as a historical narrative.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-81356726513243611532010-01-28T15:18:38.114-05:002010-01-28T15:18:38.114-05:00First, thanks to Steve, I did not know that Monkey...First, thanks to Steve, I did not know that Monkey was Kaitlyn! Duh and whew, at least I know who I am dealing with so moving on.<br /><br />>>Most of the Bible is unverified including works of miracles and the enslavement of the Jews by the Egyptians. <br /><br />O'rly? Let me recommend a good book to you Kaitlyn, I added it to my recommended list, its called "Annals of the World". <br /><br />I would conclude by your statements here that you believe that circumstantial evidence is not even evidence. There is evidence of the Bible's claims. <br /><br />Your "homework" here appears to be just denials and presuppositions of the subjects and that is no big surprise. If you follow the logic and evidence one would come to the conclusion that God indeed exists, unless they fight the simple logic that is. Is that what you are doing here?D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-53672861525489346232010-01-28T11:15:17.816-05:002010-01-28T11:15:17.816-05:00Dan
Even though you are insinuating there has not ...<b>Dan</b><br /><i>Even though you are insinuating there has not been one thing in the Bible that has been disproved?<br /><br />Mustard seed? Is that all you have? That is an easy one.</i><br /> <br />Right...I've read all the dodging for it...none really deal with it. The "least of all seeds" is the least of all seeds, period. He did not say "the least of all seeds that you people know about" which would have still gotten the message across, but the least of all seeds, period. The orchid is the "least" of all seeds. <br /><br />I know you people can rationalize pretty much any problem away in the bible when you want, but after a while, some of them start to look kind of, stretched.<br /><br />I like how the Apologetics Press people deal with the money that Judas got, and gave back to the priests when they try to explain away the contradiction between the verses that say that "judas bought the field" and "the priests bought the field".<br /><br />Their analogies they use to handwave away the problem don't even match the actual events that happen. Read up on them and you'll see.<br /><br />My favourite is the way they try to excuse away the "there's some standing here who will not taste of death till the son of man comes in his kingdom" verse.<br /><br />Christ's most famous (to me) failed prophecy.<br /><br />Apologists try to pretend that he's referencing the "transfiguration", when the events don't even match up, and they have to ignore a few verses in context in order to do it.Reynoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07316048340050664487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-11266503916735884972010-01-28T11:00:34.367-05:002010-01-28T11:00:34.367-05:00Kaitlyn- if ya gotta bridge to sell to Dan, I be h...Kaitlyn- if ya gotta bridge to sell to Dan, I be hopin it's not the Dumbarton one, cuz that one is mine. Arrr.zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-24345799976384344492010-01-28T01:51:17.940-05:002010-01-28T01:51:17.940-05:00What if the bible was simply a book of fantasy mea...What if the bible was simply a book of fantasy meant to entertain akin to Harry Potter?Yaegerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08639306782444621435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-38230087390056253822010-01-28T01:31:27.278-05:002010-01-28T01:31:27.278-05:00* (1) The writings in question are true on all spe...<b>* (1) The writings in question are true on all specific points we can verify. (With arguments in each case.)</b><br /><br />Some things in the Bible we can verify such as place names... and uh... a few people. Most of the Bible is unverified including works of miracles and the enslavement of the Jews by the Egyptians. And in many cases, the Bible can be shown to be completely wrong such as when it says there are two great lights in the sky when there is only one.<br /><br /><b>* (2, from 1) Hence, we have good reason to assume that they are completely truthful throughout.</b><br /><br />This is the same collection of books that says the Earth is 6,000 years old. Excuse me if I'm not exactly convinced of this. There are craters on Earth so massive they would have caused mass extinctions and world wide panic, yet nowhere in human history has there been a recording of any such event. Case closed.<br /><br /><b>* (3) The writings describe many events that demonstrate the existence of God.</b><br /><br />The same has been said of the Koran and most every other religious book.<br /><br /><b>* (4, from 2 and 3) Hence, these descriptions must be truthful, so God must exist. (It actually suffices for just one of them to be truthful.)</b><br /><br />No.<br /><br /><b>* (5) If the writings had been authored by man, they would not have been true on all of these points. (With arguments in each of these cases.)</b><br /><br />And it's not true on all these points.<br /><br /><b>* (6, from 1 and 5) Hence, they must have been authored by someone other than man.</b><br /><br />I have a bridge I want to sell you.<br /><br /><b>* (7, from 2 and 5) Hence, we have good reason to assume the existence of someone who, unlike man, is completely truthful, and who authored these writings.</b><br /><br />It's a really nice bridge.<br /><br /><b>* (8, from 7) This someone is God.</b><br /><br />I know you'll love it.<br /><br />I'm sorry Dan, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the Bible is just as divine as the Veda and the Koran. By that, I mean it's not.<br /><br />Have a wonderful day. :)Debunkey Monkeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15355896606457674317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-6857028950888131262010-01-27T17:27:09.587-05:002010-01-27T17:27:09.587-05:00"Where the Bible has seemingly contradicted s..."Where the Bible has seemingly contradicted science in the past, the scientists have found that they were in error in later days."<br /><br />Any examples?ANTZILLAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588266412434898900noreply@blogger.com