tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post4395284801189981782..comments2024-03-19T01:46:23.275-04:00Comments on Debunking Atheists: Evolution(ists) gets OWNED!!!D. A. N. http://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comBlogger682125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-38445231119098465562013-12-02T14:57:32.275-05:002013-12-02T14:57:32.275-05:00Not by pure chance, by pure fact. With the right ...Not by pure chance, by pure fact. With the right conditions life can and is created. Quit plugging 'god' in as a fudge factor for every equation that's too complex for your very limited understanding.BChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10951858832053251162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-74227118268705179812009-01-11T12:55:00.000-05:002009-01-11T12:55:00.000-05:00P.S. If we were talking about "truth beyond a rea...P.S. If we were talking about "truth beyond a reasonable doubt" or "truth for all intensive porpoises" or some such, I would wholeheartedly agree that my tale-spinning was tap-dancing, beyond any reasonable or unreasonable doubt. But the word "absolute" should not be tossed around lightly; it works well in systems of formal logic, but not as applied to descriptions of reality, which is what "truth" means in the real world.zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-53576850459488484172009-01-11T12:51:00.000-05:002009-01-11T12:51:00.000-05:00Tap dancing? I am absolutely not a tap dancer. H...Tap dancing? I am absolutely not a tap dancer. How about showing me where the lines that separate "absolute truth" from "not absolute truth" are in the above examples? As I have said before, in the real world, "truth" is a degree of fit along a continuum, and "absolute" truth does not obtain.zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-22735648338527464532009-01-11T12:22:00.000-05:002009-01-11T12:22:00.000-05:00Zilch,With all due respect. That's tap dancing.Loo...Zilch,<BR/>With all due respect. That's tap dancing.<BR/><BR/>Look forward to your blog.<BR/><BR/>Shalom,<BR/>Dani' ElDani' Elhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08371944082656315654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-56592536524619335442009-01-11T12:14:00.000-05:002009-01-11T12:14:00.000-05:00Okay, Dani'el. While this question deserves more ...Okay, Dani'el. While this question deserves more time and space, and may even move me to get my blog up and running, I'll see what I can do to answer you briefly. As examples of "absolute truth" you give the following:<BR/><BR/><I>I am a Jewish man living in San Francisco.<BR/>Absolutely true.</I><BR/><BR/>This one's easy: if you say you are Jewish because God told you so, I can't debate that, because we've gone outside the real world, at least my real world. Staying within my world (no absolute-truth granting Gods), I imagine that there are lots of Jews who would say that you are not Jewish, and you would be hard put to find a definition for "Jew" (or Christian, etc.) that everyone would agree on. Not absolute.<BR/><BR/>As far as living in San Francisco goes, sure, for most practical purposes, you live in SF. But what exactly does "live" mean? Do you ever go outside the city limits of SF? Then you don't always live in SF. Not absolute.<BR/><BR/><I>It is absolutely true that I am not a goat-trout swimming in a sea of ammonia on Venus.</I><BR/><BR/>What is a "goat-trout"? If it is another imaginary being, then we're outside the real world again. And the surface of Venus is way too hot for a sea of ammonia. But suppose there is some such animal, and some such sea. Again, while I would agree with you that this statement is true beyond any reasonable doubt, it is not "absolutely" true. Why not? Because you cannot draw lines that define the borders of goat-trouts and seas. Is the mother of a goat-trout also a goat-trout? The greatgreatgreatgrandson? The thousandth cousin a thousand times removed? Somewhere in here we have the connection between goat-trouts and humans, even if we have to go back to the supernova that formed carbon for both of you, and there's no place to exactly draw the line. And how big does a sea have to be? Is a pond a sea? One molecule? No matter how you try, you can't say exactly where the borders are. Not absolutely true.<BR/><BR/>The same goes for your other examples. While my stretching of boundaries may seem ludicrous- and it is ludicrous from a practical standpoint- you are not a goat-trout- adding the label "absolute" implies the existence of lines which do not exist in the real world.zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-79722981266673497462009-01-10T16:32:00.000-05:002009-01-10T16:32:00.000-05:00Zilch define "soft truth".Is that like chilled fir...Zilch define "soft truth".<BR/>Is that like chilled fire?<BR/>Hot ice?<BR/><BR/>I am a Jewish man living in San Francisco.<BR/>Absolutely true.<BR/><BR/>It is absolutely true that I am not a goat-trout swimming in a sea of ammonia on Venus.<BR/><BR/>It is absolutely true that you are not a hubcap for a 69 Citroen in a junkyard in New Velzyland, Israel.<BR/><BR/>Is it not absolutely true that you are not a Christian?<BR/><BR/>Is it absolutely true that I have sinned by writing limericks? ;-)Dani' Elhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08371944082656315654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-29036803326931980392009-01-10T16:16:00.000-05:002009-01-10T16:16:00.000-05:00How do you know "absolute" truth negates "soft" tr...How do you know "absolute" truth negates "soft" truth, Dani'el, when you admit you don't know what "soft" truth is? Perhaps "soft" in this sense means "bigger and better than absolute".<BR/><BR/>And as far as your Proverbs quote goes, it's too late for that: you've written limericks. Muahaha!<BR/><BR/>And Sye, if you're still reading this: I hope you don't mind a little light-hearted banter. I don't mean to disparage you as a person at all, and if I've offended you, I apologize. I think your ideas are hogwash, but lunch is still on me if we ever get together. Cheers from ice-skating-tomorrow (yippee!) Vienna, zilchzilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-77922051698225124932009-01-10T11:17:00.000-05:002009-01-10T11:17:00.000-05:00Agreed it is getting ridiculous.Absolute truth neg...Agreed it is getting ridiculous.<BR/><BR/>Absolute truth negates the idea of "soft truth" (whatever that means).<BR/><BR/>Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.Dani' Elhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08371944082656315654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-6850237992074866202009-01-10T10:38:00.000-05:002009-01-10T10:38:00.000-05:00But Dani'el (to pursue this well beyond the point ...But Dani'el (to pursue this well beyond the point of ridiculousness): you didn't answer my question. I didn't ask about "absolute truth", but about "soft truth". So tell me, is it softly true that soft truth does not exist? Yes or no.zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-90482648392204797912009-01-10T09:16:00.000-05:002009-01-10T09:16:00.000-05:00And to directly answer your question.If I claim th...And to directly answer your question.<BR/><BR/><B>If I claim there is something called "soft truth", and you deny it, and I then ask you "Is it softly true that soft truth does not exist?" what would you say? </B><BR/><BR/>I would answer "No, it is absolutely true that there is no absolute universal soft truth."<BR/><BR/>Trying to validate your contradictions by adding words, "soft" or "coherent" won't fly.Dani' Elhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08371944082656315654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-31835941259925285622009-01-10T09:07:00.000-05:002009-01-10T09:07:00.000-05:00Zilch, I know typing that apostrophe is a nuisance...Zilch, I know typing that apostrophe is a nuisance, especially if your hands are cold in your chilly Vienna shop.<BR/>So "Daniel or Dani" is fine with me.<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry. You can throw a new word in the mix, (coherent) but when I read your last post all I see are contradictions.<BR/>You simply cannot declare an absolute truth as proof of your claim that there is no absolute truth and not contradict yourself.<BR/><BR/>And then the rest of the presup apologetic applies.<BR/><BR/>With your own words you slay yourself.<BR/>And the sword in your hand is engraved, "made in Heaven".Dani' Elhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08371944082656315654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-75635855935244086382009-01-10T08:46:00.000-05:002009-01-10T08:46:00.000-05:00Yes, Dani'el, I meant you and not Dan. Can't you ...Yes, Dani'el, I meant you and not Dan. Can't you guys get new, different, harder to confuse names? Sorry, hehe.<BR/><BR/>Dani'el, what don't you understand? There is no "contradiction" where there is no coherency, and if "absolute" truth, and/or "universal" truth do not exist or are incoherent, as I maintain, then statements involving them are incoherent. If I claim there is something called "soft truth", and you deny it, and I then ask you "Is it softly true that soft truth does not exist?" what would you say? In the lack of any evidence, it's just wordplay: elegant, but content-free.zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-54024401089829429932009-01-10T08:35:00.000-05:002009-01-10T08:35:00.000-05:00Zilch, I'll assume you mean me and not Dan.You wro...Zilch, I'll assume you mean me and not Dan.<BR/><BR/>You wrote-<BR/><B>No, Dan. As I've said, and others here have said, there is no such thing as universal (or absolute) truth.</B><BR/><BR/>So then it's universally absolutely true that there is no absolute universal truth?<BR/>Isn't that a contradiction?<BR/><BR/>Z- <B> That's why Sye's argument is sunk before it leaves harbor: his question "Is it absolutely true that there is no absolute truth?" is simply incoherent, unless he can demonstrate that there is such a thing as absolute truth. He's done no such thing.</B><BR/><BR/>Seems to me you just sunk your own boat by declaring that it is absolutely universally true that there is no absolute universal truth.<BR/>Isn't that true?<BR/><BR/>Kabong!<BR/>My steel abso<I>lute</I> rings out in the dark misty night, cracking yet another skull.<BR/><BR/>Shalom,<BR/>Dani' El Kabong<BR/>El martillo Hebreo.Dani' Elhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08371944082656315654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-35860684644660616102009-01-10T07:24:00.000-05:002009-01-10T07:24:00.000-05:00No, Dan. As I've said, and others here have said,...No, Dan. As I've said, and others here have said, there is no such thing as universal (or absolute) truth. That's why Sye's argument is sunk before it leaves harbor: his question "Is it absolutely true that there is no absolute truth?" is simply incoherent, unless he can demonstrate that there is such a thing as absolute truth. He's done no such thing.zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-76187555776888012562009-01-09T09:21:00.000-05:002009-01-09T09:21:00.000-05:00Zilch quoth thus- Like life, limericks are imperfe...Zilch quoth thus- <B>Like life, limericks are imperfect, but they do the job.</B><BR/><BR/>So it's universally true that limericks are imperfect?Dani' Elhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08371944082656315654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-74854929077191263982009-01-09T09:13:00.000-05:002009-01-09T09:13:00.000-05:00Dani'el: no, as you can see, limericks often drop ...Dani'el: no, as you can see, limericks often drop one of the unstressed syllables at the beginning of a line. Like life, limericks are imperfect, but they do the job.<BR/><BR/>And you might as well say "Anna of Pest", since Pest is one half of the double city. Buda is on the other side of the Duna (the Danube).<BR/><BR/>rhiggs: I would say yes, but since your post is number 666, I'd better play it safe and pretend I don't know you...zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-33176496838555129242009-01-09T09:00:00.000-05:002009-01-09T09:00:00.000-05:00Valid point Zilch but I will persist in exposing h...Valid point Zilch but I will persist in exposing his double standards...<BR/><BR/>Hmmm, is it universally true that imaginary armour has no chinks??rhiggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16246371823456833408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-39021609685668893052009-01-09T08:33:00.000-05:002009-01-09T08:33:00.000-05:00Zilch- an "anapest" is the kind of poetic meter of...<I>Zilch- an "anapest" is the kind of poetic meter of which limericks consist: da da duh da da duh da da duh: two unstressed syllables followed by a stressed one. The word "anapest" itself is an example of anapest. Cool, huh?</I><BR/><BR/>Now you did it Zilch.<BR/><BR/><I>A woman named Ana of Budapest...</I><BR/><BR/>Well, I'll leave that one alone for now but to the chase.<BR/>Is is universally true that all limericks are composed of anapest cadences?<BR/><BR/>You can only blame yourself for that one Zilch. ;-)Dani' Elhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08371944082656315654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-41957539289622564792009-01-09T08:20:00.000-05:002009-01-09T08:20:00.000-05:00rhiggs: nice work, but I'm afraid Sye has no chink...rhiggs: nice work, but I'm afraid Sye has no chinks in his armor. No matter that the armor consists of imaginary plates that don't interlink to make a whole: it is what it is, and Sye is not going to take it off.<BR/><BR/>That is, unless I can get him to write a few more limericks.<BR/><BR/>Dani'el: an "anapest" is the kind of poetic meter of which limericks consist: da da <I>duh</I> da da <I>duh</I> da da <I>duh</I>: two unstressed syllables followed by a stressed one. The word "anapest" itself is an example of anapest. Cool, huh?zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-72885902076016687212009-01-09T07:23:00.000-05:002009-01-09T07:23:00.000-05:00Sye, thats eleven counts of failing to answer a si...Sye, thats eleven counts of failing to answer a simple question. Your position is becoming more ridiculous with each squirmy effort to evade answering, but carry on if you like :-)<BR/><BR/><BR/>"How is it that you can know anything?"<BR/><BR/>I don't care. If I say that I know nothing, then that would be something I know, so it is self-refuting. So it is logically impossible to know nothing, hence I must know something.<BR/><BR/>Tell you what. I'll leave it up to you. Please only reply to this post if you think that I also have 'certain knowledge about some things'. If you think I know nothing then stop talking to me. Its your call...<BR/><BR/>Ask yourself the same question. How do you know something? You have yet to validate if your senses were reliable in order to receive your revelation, hence your revelation may have been unreliable. This throws your whole position into question so you are open to the same scrutiny.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>"Um, your position is inconsistent. Not only can I say it, I said it again :-)"<BR/><BR/>It is inconsistent only according to your standards, which assume that I assume absolute knowledge, which I don't. And anyway, as you do not have absolute knowledge, as you admit yourself, how can you know anything for sure? Does God reveal his absolute knowledge to you whenever you ask so that you have a direct source of absolute knowledge? If so, prove it. Win the lottery every week for the next four weeks. If you do, I'll admit you are right about everything.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"That is a claim that I do not need to refute"<BR/><BR/>Eh, duh!! Exactly. Thank you for confirming how ridiculous making unfounded claims about God are.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>"since your telling us what an omniscient, omnipotent being (God) cannot do, is plainly absurd."<BR/><BR/>That was not my telling because I don't think your God is omniscient and omnipotent, but nice try at a strawman. If you read what I wrote it was reasons why omnisciency and omnipotency contradict one another, which you seem to be afraid to address. But you can keep flogging that dead horse if it pleases you.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"Which revelation?"<BR/><BR/>Why try and stall for one more post? Thats pretty pathetic. Your FIRST revelation. Please tell me if you trusted your information processing ability prior to your first revelation...yes or no???rhiggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16246371823456833408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-59714029581448635302009-01-09T07:21:00.000-05:002009-01-09T07:21:00.000-05:00Was ist anapast?Was ist anapast?Dani' Elhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08371944082656315654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-85019050248676300882009-01-09T06:56:00.000-05:002009-01-09T06:56:00.000-05:00Dani'el: you da man! But I don't spend all my tim...Dani'el: you da man! But I don't spend <I>all</I> my time writing verses and rhyme, although maybe I should. On the other hand, it doesn't pay the rent...<BR/><BR/>Sye: jij kann ook Duits, niet waar?<BR/><BR/>Sye hat einen Glauben so fest<BR/>(ich erkläre das mit Anapäst)<BR/>hermetisch versiegelt<BR/>und dicht abgeriegelt<BR/>Und sinnvoll? Es gibt keinen Test.zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-53094529660662702122009-01-09T02:35:00.000-05:002009-01-09T02:35:00.000-05:00Impressive Herr Zilch.Well done. :)Zilch says that...Impressive Herr Zilch.<BR/>Well done. :)<BR/><BR/>Zilch says that Sye is quite silly<BR/>He says he can prove it but will he?<BR/>He spends all his time <BR/>writing verses and rhymes<BR/>in his Vienna shop that is chillyDani' Elhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08371944082656315654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-55871773123581003432009-01-09T02:14:00.000-05:002009-01-09T02:14:00.000-05:00A merry-go-round has a wonderful soundAnd the rich...A merry-go-round has a wonderful sound<BR/>And the richly caparisoned ponies<BR/>Lend a feeling profound as they swirl you around<BR/>But look close, and you'll see they are phonies.zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-5429673399889718702009-01-08T21:36:00.000-05:002009-01-08T21:36:00.000-05:00Rhiggs said: ”Irrelevant.”How do you know that thi...Rhiggs said: <I>”Irrelevant.”</I><BR/><BR/>How do you know that this is irrelevant? In fact rhiggs, how is it that you can know <B>anything?</B> <BR/><BR/><I>”That does not give YOU absolute knowledge”</I><BR/><BR/>Not absolute knowledge about everything, but certain knowledge about some things, a claim which you cannot make, and have yet to refute.<BR/><BR/><I>” so you cannot say whether my position is inconsistent.”</I><BR/><BR/>Um, your position is inconsistent. Not only can I say it, I said it again :-)<BR/><BR/>I said: “I haven’t told you about my revelation, just that God ensures that we can be certain of it (A claim which you have yet to refute – because you cannot)."<BR/><BR/>You answered: <I>”I do not need to refute your claim. It has no substance.”</I><BR/><BR/>How do you know? In fact, how can you know <B>anything?</B><BR/><BR/><I>” I counter-claim that God cannot ensure certainty in his revelations (A claim which you cannot refute)”</I><BR/><BR/>That is a claim that I do not need to refute, since your telling us what an omniscient, omnipotent being (God) cannot do, is plainly absurd.<BR/><BR/><I>”Please tell me if you trusted your senses prior to your revelation or not...yes or no???”</I><BR/><BR/>Which revelation?Sye TenBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05695428662014842212noreply@blogger.com