tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post5086588996375282528..comments2024-03-19T01:46:23.275-04:00Comments on Debunking Atheists: Response to FroggieD. A. N. http://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-8224301341538264462008-10-21T15:40:00.000-04:002008-10-21T15:40:00.000-04:00Technically, I think that was 4 warnings, not 1 :)...Technically, I think that was 4 warnings, not 1 :)<BR/><BR/>I was unaware of any image / intellectual property violations, and still am. Does anyone know what Mr. Loftus is referring to?Whatevermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458601080799278850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-15163752741973133002008-10-21T14:48:00.000-04:002008-10-21T14:48:00.000-04:00Dan, one warning. Take that image down off of my b...Dan, one warning. Take that image down off of my book on Amazon now. You have no right to do that and I reported it to Amazon. I call on everyone to report it to Amazon. Take it down of you own volition or you will be banned from DC and I will summarily delete all of your comments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-33721879400608869932008-10-13T17:31:00.000-04:002008-10-13T17:31:00.000-04:00Dan wrote:"Come on don't just list the negative on...Dan wrote:<BR/><I>"Come on don't just list the negative ones."</I><BR/><BR/>I didn't. I listed the most-negative one and the most-positive one I could think of. The two ends of the continuum of dictatorships.<BR/><BR/><I>"My house has a good dictatorship. My children fully understand that I am in charge and are quite OK with it."</I><BR/><BR/>It's not for you to judge, Dan, how "good" your dictatorship is. Doing so just reeks of arrogance. And I'm sure Hitler had lots of positive things to say about his own regime, so we can't rely on the dictator to provide an honest assessment of his rule.<BR/><BR/><I>"Great advice, back at you."</I><BR/><BR/>Yet you're giving me every indication that you've stopped listening to me, or yourself, or anyone else.<BR/><BR/><I>"Please don't fall in line and be just another Lucifer effect victim."</I><BR/><BR/>I wouldn't consider standing up to a petty tyrant to be evil, Dan (if I believed that the tyrant exists).<BR/><BR/><I>"Stand against this corrupt society and Honor the One that can save this world. The name to call out is Jesus."</I><BR/><BR/>I've got my own reasons for working to change "this corrupt society," Dan. Calling on Jesus is not an act of rebellion against corruption, it's an act of capitulation and cowardice, little different from calling on Aquaman when you're just standing in a puddle.<BR/><BR/>I deny that I am powerless, and work to effect change. You are busy insisting that you are powerless (except over your family!) and pray for help from the superbeing that created this mess in the first place.<BR/><BR/>I am saddened that you will inevitably instill in your children your own sense of despair so great that they will aspire to nothing in this world. They may read the parable of the talents, but I doubt they (or you) will get its point.Dave W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12092834841145857131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-39087783406941201172008-10-13T16:21:00.000-04:002008-10-13T16:21:00.000-04:00I wish I had the power to end the suffering Just l...I wish I had the power to end the suffering <BR/><BR/>Just look at what people are going through while me and you are comfortable in our rooms typing an enlightening conversation.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/09/28/what.matters.dust/index.html#cnnSTCText" REL="nofollow">Children of the black dust</A><BR/><BR/>I am sickened as how we are treating each other. I sure thought we all were better then this but reading ALL of todays headlines I am beginning to understand God's viewpoint of us. We are wretched and need a Savior. ALL of us!D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-91839733893042363342008-10-13T16:16:00.000-04:002008-10-13T16:16:00.000-04:00Whateverman,"Stealing food in war time when you ne...Whateverman,<BR/><BR/><I>"Stealing food in war time when you need it to survive (as long as you're not preventing others from surviving) isn't evil."</I><BR/><BR/>But you would still be a thief right? Yes it is still stealing no matter how you view it. <BR/><BR/><I>"Why not try to end the suffering while you wait?"</I><BR/><BR/>I do my best to. I even started a blog to help atheists understand, maybe you have herd of it. I don't know if this constitutes an attempt to end the suffering as much as perpetuating the suffering but we do what we can.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-76314167510336134582008-10-13T16:10:00.000-04:002008-10-13T16:10:00.000-04:00Dan said: The real issue is that I know the end o...Dan said: <I> The real issue is that I know the end of the story and I guess I am anxious to get things going so the suffering ends. I know it isn't going to get better by any stretch of the imagination so I am in limbo.</I><BR/><BR/>Why not try to end the suffering while you wait?Whatevermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458601080799278850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-48432722155412161312008-10-13T16:08:00.000-04:002008-10-13T16:08:00.000-04:00Whateverman said: "Sorry Dan - hating this world i...Whateverman said: "Sorry Dan - hating this world is fairly evil,..." <BR/><BR/>Dan responded: <I>I can live with that if you can admit so is everyone that breaks the Ten Commandments, true?</I><BR/><BR/>I can't admit that, no. It's easy to point out situations where the justification for breaking those commandments makes breaking them not-very-evil. Stealing food in war time when you need it to survive (as long as you're not preventing others from surviving) isn't evil.<BR/><BR/>It's wrong, but understandable given the circumstances.<BR/><BR/>I view the commandments as general rules, rather than as absolute determinants of right & wrong. Thus, I view breaking of them to be situationally right & wrong.<BR/><BR/>--<BR/><BR/>I can understand that sheep analogy. I don't necessarily like where Ray took it, but I don't think it's particularly objectionable or illogical (generally speaking).Whatevermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458601080799278850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-68277413915210158302008-10-13T15:42:00.000-04:002008-10-13T15:42:00.000-04:00Whateverman,"Are you suggesting that these things ...Whateverman,<BR/><BR/><I>"Are you suggesting that these things which have provided joy and enlightenment and shelter and love and food - none of them are any good?"</I><BR/><BR/>Luke 16:15<BR/><BR/>No all the things you have listed are very good in my eyes. But I am not the judge here.<BR/><BR/><I>"Sorry Dan - hating this world is fairly evil,..."</I> I can live with that if you can admit so is everyone that breaks the Ten Commandments, true?<BR/><BR/>Remember the Sheep analogy from Ray. (I love quoting him for you guys, sort of sadistic I know)<BR/><BR/>"A little girl was once watching a sheep eat grass and thought how white it looked against the green background. But when it began to snow she thought, "That sheep now looks dirty against the white snow!" It was the same sheep, but with a different background. When we compare ourselves to man's standard we look pretty clean, but when we compare ourselves to the pure snow-white righteousness of God's standard—His Law, we can see ourselves in truth, that we are unclean in His sight. That Law is the holy standard by which humanity will be judged on Judgment Day."<BR/><BR/>That was my point. I love the beautiful things of this world. Just looking into my kids eyes and I see all sorts of good. The real issue is that I know the end of the story and I guess I am anxious to get things going so the suffering ends. I know it isn't going to get better by any stretch of the imagination so I am in limbo.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-34879811821157932072008-10-13T14:51:00.000-04:002008-10-13T14:51:00.000-04:00I hate this world, we failed to do any goodAre you...<I>I hate this world, we failed to do any good</I><BR/><BR/>Are you actually suggesting that Christians haven't done any good? <BR/><BR/>Do you actually mean that good art and community service and soup kitchens and the Christian Children's Foundation and Doctors Without Borders - and dozens of other examples that I don't have time to write down.<BR/><BR/>Are you suggesting that these things which have provided joy and enlightenment and shelter and love and food - none of them are any good?<BR/><BR/>Or, perhaps, are you throwing the baby out with the bathwater? No one disagrees with the idea that humanity is capable of some very "unenlightened behavior" (heh). But you seem to be willing to ignore the good things that people do in order to justify the need for the destruction of our race.<BR/><BR/>Because, if God were to swoop down and render his judgement, that's exactly what it would be: the destruction of our species. We wouldn't be around to be either good or bad - and we'd never have the capacity to learn to be better than our instincts tell us.<BR/><BR/>Sorry Dan - hating this world is fairly evil, especially when you're willing to destroy (or sondemn to hell) all of the people who really did try to believe in the right stuff, but ended up belonging to the wrong club.Whatevermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458601080799278850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-41686642700281615282008-10-13T14:43:00.000-04:002008-10-13T14:43:00.000-04:00Dave W,You aren't the first to say "Dan, are a vic...Dave W,<BR/><BR/>You aren't the first to say <I>"Dan, are a victim of Stockholm Syndrome."</I> <BR/><BR/>I remember using that term <A HREF="http://exchristian.net/testimonies/2007/11/christianity-ultimate-free-card.html#c6477225144824307683" REL="nofollow">MYSELF</A> so I am familiar with the term. If you remember <A HREF="http://debunkingatheists.blogspot.com/2008/08/conclusion.html?showComment=1220558820000#c5855300030734498792" REL="nofollow">THIS</A> conversation. Stockholm is very similar to the Lucifer effect. <BR/><BR/><I>"The thing is, dictatorships come in all sorts of styles."</I><BR/><BR/>Come on don't just list the negative ones. My house has a good dictatorship. My children fully understand that I am in charge and are quite OK with it. <BR/><BR/><I>"Listen to what you're saying. Read the Bible and look at what it says."</I><BR/><BR/>Great advice, back at you.<BR/><BR/>Please don't fall in line and be just another Lucifer effect victim. Stand against this corrupt society and Honor the One that can save this world. The name to call out is Jesus.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-90609135401148059762008-10-13T14:23:00.000-04:002008-10-13T14:23:00.000-04:00Whateverman,"I don't mean this as an insult, but y...Whateverman,<BR/><BR/><I>"I don't mean this as an insult, but you'd be an awful parent. Just imagine what your kids would turn out like if they knew that Dad was going to swoop in and resolve of all their problems."</I><BR/><BR/>That's why I am a great patent, because I make my 2 year old cook his own eggs and do the dishes, no free ride here.<BR/><BR/>As far as point 2) That was a point that I was making about the corrupt power players of this world. Things would never fix themselves without God intervening.<BR/><BR/><I>"Join humanity and help us solve the problems we've created. Be part of the solution, rather than waiting too see if your fringe beliefs are confirmed."</I><BR/><BR/>That was the point I made about rich evil people, they will never suddenly grow a conscience. The ones in charge will never give up the power and they are corrupt so no matter what you want to do to help humanity it will fail as long as the rich evil people in charge way at top have anything to say about it. That is why God will remove all of it and make them powerless.<BR/><BR/>You can send all the money you want to Africa to feed the starving but the gorillas in charge is taking that money and buying weapons to kill more people. What a wonderful world we have.<BR/><BR/>Matthew 10:39, Matthew 16:25, Mark 8:35, Luke 9:24 ,Luke 17:33, John 12:25<BR/><BR/>I hate this world, we failed to do any good, we all deserve to have a good dictatorship, called God, to run things properly since we all failed to do it ourselves.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-618563531390411142008-10-13T09:05:00.000-04:002008-10-13T09:05:00.000-04:00Dan said: And I hope your faith will change for al...Dan said: <I>And I hope your faith will change for all our sake. Otherwise we are doomed to a wretched life forever because if you believe that the super rich evil people will suddenly grow a conscience you are gravely mistaken. It would and will take an act of God. </I><BR/><BR/>Let's be fair:<BR/><BR/>1) Changing my faith wont do a damned thing for humanity. It might have an impact on my family and friends, assuming the change impacts my behavior - but that's it.<BR/><BR/>2) Carefully re-read our exchange here, and you'll see that I never suggested (not even a hint) that rich evil people will suddenly grow a conscience<BR/><BR/>3) God has provided 2 millennia of evidence that he will (without hesitation) let us screw up, and be forced to clean up our own messes. The support for this idea is staggeringly vast.<BR/><BR/>4) I don't mean this as an insult, but you'd be an awful parent. Just imagine what your kids would turn out like if they knew that Dad was going to swoop in and resolve of all their problems. Every bully, every money issue, every lapse in judgement - fixed.<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry Dan, but it's simply not going to happen. Assuming God created us and cares for us, the very last thing he's going to do is appear - seperate those who were members of the right club from those who weren't - and then condemn/reward each eternally.<BR/><BR/>It's not going to happen.<BR/><BR/>Join humanity and help us solve the problems we've created. Be part of the solution, rather than waiting too see if your fringe beliefs are confirmed.Whatevermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458601080799278850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-72469458269985201492008-10-13T00:15:00.000-04:002008-10-13T00:15:00.000-04:00Dan! Dan, are you listening to yourself?!You are ...Dan! Dan, are you listening to yourself?!<BR/><BR/>You are effectively saying, "one day, the tyrant will take away all the bad things that he's created, and then everything will be peachy-keen!"<BR/><BR/>It is absolutely clear that you, Dan, are a victim of <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome" REL="nofollow">Stockholm Syndrome</A>. The exceptional thing is, of course, that your captor is <I>imaginary</I>. You defend him and celebrate him anyway.<BR/><BR/>Yes, people can be stupid and evil and do all sorts of horrible things to one another. If God exists, none of that changes, you just get a promise of something better. Rather than try to do something to improve the situation here, among real people doing real things, you've given up, and just cling to a promise that other <I>men</I> have made to you.<BR/><BR/>At least, that's the way it looks.<BR/><BR/>The thing is, dictatorships come in all sorts of styles. There are harsh, brutal totalitarian regimes where a single wrong word can get one shot, and there are benevolent monarchies where the citizens almost all love the King and everyone prospers. Nobody here is arguing in favor of capitalism instead of God, and <I>certainly</I> nobody here is arguing in favor of U.S. politicking instead of God (those comparisons are simply bizarre).<BR/><BR/>But politics and governments can be changed by the actions of mere mortals. God cannot be. You've given up, and appear to have decided that none of it can be changed, and so you'll cling to the system that provides you with the best-sounding platitudes.<BR/><BR/>Because the God/Hitler comparison is apt. Read the Old Testament, count the number of people slaughtered or enslaved by your God's command. Heck, read the <I>New</I> Testament, in which your God's alleged justice is exemplified in part by floggings and threats.<BR/><BR/>The Bible is inarguably the widest-read propaganda piece ever written. The fact that two billion people <I>believe</I> the propaganda doesn't change its status. The "Big Lie" did not originate with Hitler's regime.<BR/><BR/>Come on, Dan. Listen to what you're saying. Read the Bible and look at what <I>it</I> says. Even if you're completely cynical about human beings and believe that there's nothing you can do to change the amount of evil in the world, that doesn't mean that you <I>should</I> believe that some magic man can do it for you.<BR/><BR/>Is enslaving yourself really a solution to any problem, Dan?Dave W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12092834841145857131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-90149069752681384682008-10-12T23:48:00.000-04:002008-10-12T23:48:00.000-04:00And I hope your faith will change for all our sake...And I hope your faith will change for all our sake. Otherwise we are doomed to a wretched life forever because if you believe that the super rich evil people will suddenly grow a conscience you are gravely mistaken. It would and will take an act of God.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-11593668630362804932008-10-12T23:08:00.000-04:002008-10-12T23:08:00.000-04:00I cannot wait for the day when God is running this...<I>I cannot wait for the day when God is running this world properly and most of all, fairly. Evil will be crushed and eradicated forever. A dictatorship we will all benefit from.</I><BR/><BR/>I'm happy to say I have great faith that this will not come to pass.Whatevermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458601080799278850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-24227619813783767572008-10-12T17:23:00.000-04:002008-10-12T17:23:00.000-04:00"No, the point is that you are embracing and defen...<I>"No, the point is that you are embracing and defending your own subjugation to a monstrous dictator,"</I><BR/><BR/>Now you are comparing Hitler to God?<BR/><BR/>I think we can all agree that since God is the Creator of all things (even us) and that He alone will determine all of our fates on Judgement Day that we have a universe with a Father Dictatorship. I am fully fine with that because I think America alone has proved that even capitalism doesn't work left unchecked. That we cannot do the right thing on any constant basis. We cannot trust the people we vote to be in charge of the government and that mankind is inherently evil and liars. <BR/><BR/>I cannot wait for the day when God is running this world properly and most of all, fairly. Evil will be crushed and eradicated forever. A dictatorship we will all benefit from.D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-48811790986416355502008-10-12T12:27:00.000-04:002008-10-12T12:27:00.000-04:00if God is omniscient and omnipotent, then free wil...<I>if God is omniscient and omnipotent, then free will is an illusion, and we do exactly what God created us to do. Good and evil both come from God, unless He is not almighty and allknowing.</I><BR/><BR/>I think this is a good example of what scares me about Christianity (very generally). Of the people who make the most noise, then sepnd an awful lot of time talking about what God's like, what he wants, what he's done and will do, etc.<BR/><BR/>And yet, if you point out the logical inconsistencies in what they're saying, without fail, then back right down to the baseline: it's what they believe, and logic/reason are incapable of changing their minds.<BR/><BR/>If this really is their point - then I have nothing to say :) People are free to believe whatever they want, so long as it doesn't intrude on the lives of non-believers. But these people continue to try to describe God & Jesus AND REALITY in terms that make no sense whatsoever.<BR/><BR/>If they really do believe what they say, and they shun logic/reason, then why do they attempt to make logical arguments to justify their beliefs?<BR/><BR/>It's almost as if they don't have as much faith as they'd like us to believe. Maybe they're trying to convince themselves...Whatevermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458601080799278850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-23267129595783636772008-10-11T18:10:00.000-04:002008-10-11T18:10:00.000-04:00Dan: Yes, it's congress.Dan:<BR/><BR/> Yes, it's congress.Pvblivshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17931937272948538181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-23536808547094046312008-10-11T03:25:00.000-04:002008-10-11T03:25:00.000-04:00Besides all of the above, Dan, God even admits tha...Besides all of the above, Dan, God even admits that He created evil, in Isaiah 45:7:<BR/><BR/><I>I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.</I><BR/><BR/>Do we have to go through the whole free-will argument again? If God is omniscient and omnipotent, we are like characters in a novel or a film that has already been written. Although we may "say" that we have the freedom to decide for ourselves, and we may "think" we have that freedom, we are already printed, or in the can: God has already composed our scripts, and we have just as much freedom as, say, Leopold Bloom has to not help Stephan Dedalus, or Neo has to not fight the Matrix.<BR/><BR/>No, if God is omniscient and omnipotent, then free will is an illusion, and we do exactly what God created us to do. Good and evil both come from God, unless He is not almighty and allknowing.zilchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695741977946935771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-73551688341474116082008-10-11T01:18:00.000-04:002008-10-11T01:18:00.000-04:00Dan wrote:"Because God is in charge he sets the ru...Dan wrote:<BR/><I>"Because God is in charge he sets the rules no matter how unfair you believe them to be."</I><BR/><BR/>Let's remind the Holocaust survivors that Hitler was in charge in Germany, so he set the rules no matter how unfair anyone believed them to be.<BR/><BR/>Good grief, Dan, how much more of a toady for a totalitarian bully can you be?<BR/><BR/>But the point I'm making is not simply that God's rules are unfair. Were that all that mattered, then I wouldn't care less what you think, Dan (after all, I don't think God exists). No, the point is that you are <I>embracing and defending</I> your own subjugation to a monstrous dictator, and as a compassionate human being, I would rather see you break free from the prison that you <I>celebrate</I>.<BR/><BR/><I>"Off the top of my head: You believe that since God gave you arms and hands, to pick up things, that if you pick up a gun and shoot a pregnant woman holding a baby (dramatic effect) that you blame God for that? OK I get your viewpoint."</I><BR/><BR/>No, that's an utterly sophomoric attempt at a caricature of my position.<BR/><BR/>I think we can all agree that Stanley Tools should be held blameless if someone picked up one of their hammers and brained his mother with it. But for this analogy to be anywhere close to what I'm talking about, Stanley Tools would have had to invent not only the hammer, but the hammerer and the ability to hammer on heads.<BR/><BR/>In other words, Dan, it appears that you're simply refusing to believe that because God created everything, it means that God created <I><B>everything</B></I>, including evil.<BR/><BR/>If God hadn't created evil, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. We'd all be living perfect lives, blissfully unaware that murder is even an option.<BR/><BR/>I don't blame God for creating the tools used to commit evil acts, I blame God for creating the evil acts <I>themselves</I>. The tools, after all, have plenty of non-evil uses.<BR/><BR/>(If, of course, I actually blamed an imaginary being for anything. Really, the blame for your self-hatred, Dan, must lie with you.)Dave W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12092834841145857131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-3816839541826844862008-10-10T21:27:00.000-04:002008-10-10T21:27:00.000-04:00Compelling argument and sound reasoning, good job....<I>Compelling argument and sound reasoning, good job. If you were in charge that would be true and right. But, unfortunately for you, you aren't in charge, God is. Because God is in charge he sets the rules no matter how unfair you believe them to be.</I><BR/><BR/>Headway!<BR/><BR/>Dan, you have here tacitly admitted that your god is unjust. You clearly recognize the fact that god's alleged actions in the Genesis 2 account convict him both of criminal negligence and of conspiracy to commit eternal torture, and while you still cling to some false sense of loyalty (battered wife syndrome, as others have noted), you have nonetheless made progress toward the recognition that no, you are not damned from birth, and yes, you -- not some cosmic voyeur -- are responsible for your actions.<BR/><BR/>Congratulations.<BR/><BR/>--<BR/>StanStan, the Half-Truth Tellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04260266801557543879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-24763619365936511182008-10-10T19:03:00.000-04:002008-10-10T19:03:00.000-04:00Oooo I love riddlesHmm is it congress?Oooo I love riddles<BR/><BR/>Hmm is it congress?D. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-48285122168834748912008-10-10T18:59:00.000-04:002008-10-10T18:59:00.000-04:00Dan: No, they're not atheists. But the nu...Dan:<BR/><BR/> No, they're not atheists. But the number should be a good clue as to who they are. Incidentally (and as a further clue) some of the people have come and gone, but the location is a very good starting point.Pvblivshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17931937272948538181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-73123124167088386982008-10-10T18:50:00.000-04:002008-10-10T18:50:00.000-04:00I guess for the record I should point out that she...I guess for the record I should point out that she wanted to continue and I wanted to quit at even day 20. I would not stop though unless she did. I started to vomit the bile first then her the next day and we decided together to stop for that reason.<BR/><BR/>Pvblivs,<BR/><BR/>Just 535 people, huh. That sure is a conservative number. Oh, starting point, got it. You know that many atheists? har harD. A. N. https://www.blogger.com/profile/11745259115723860852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7771612431511732960.post-73620450511382222712008-10-10T18:30:00.000-04:002008-10-10T18:30:00.000-04:00 By the way, in regards to your original post,... By the way, in regards to your original post, what you describe is not persecution. Also, while you might be prosecuted for starving someone, it would not be for worshipping Jesus. You seem to think that "it's for Jesus" should be a get-out-of-jail-free card. Still, if your wife (an adult) participated in a fast of her own free will, there was no crime. (If stupidity is to be deemed criminal, I can think of 535 people to serve as starting point.)Pvblivshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17931937272948538181noreply@blogger.com