January 5, 2009

Shadowy Prophecies

[Click inside picture for links to Messianic Prophecy list]
In the OT there were many shadowy prophecies for the NT.

For example baptism:

1 Pet 3:20-21 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

Another example is the sacrificing of a lamb to cover the sins in the OT to the sacrificing the Lamb of God for forgiveness of sins in the NT.

The sacrificial lamb during Passover referring to Jesus our Passover Lamb. (1 Corinthians 5:7) The blood of the lamb over the door to save your first born and the Lamb of God, His first and only begotten son, shed His Blood to save everyone.

From Sabbath as a day in the OT, to Sabbath is Jesus Christ in NT; Jesus is our Sabbath Rest is another shadowy prophecy.

The reason why Jesus said "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34) was because of the fulfillment of the prophetic explanation of Himself dying on the Cross in Psalm 22. In verse 15 "they pierced my hands and my feet" hundreds of years before Crucifictions were invented as a form of death penalty.

Read Isaiah 53 1-12 and you will see that it was written about Jesus and was written almost 700 years before Christ was even born.

My all time favorite is The Ten Commandments are like the ten camels that carried Abraham's servant in search of a bride for his only begotten son, Isaac (Genesis 24:10-20). When the servant arrived at the city, Nahor I believe, he had his ten camels kneel down outside the city before the well at the time the woman go out to draw water. He prayed that the bride to be would be evidenced by the fact that she would have consideration for the camels. When Rebekah saw the camels, she ran to the well to get water for them.

God, the Father, sent His Spirit to search for a bride for His only begotten Son. He has chosen the Ten Commandments to carry this special message.

The Holy Spirit knows that the primary reason the bride draws water from the well of salvation is to satisfy the ten thirsting camels of a holy and just Law. If the Law didn't demand death for sin, we wouldn't need a Savior. The true convert comes to the savior simply to satisfy the demands of a holy Law.

The espoused virgin has respect for the Commandments of God. She loves God's Law because of what it is (an expression of His holy nature) and what it does (show us our need for mercy). She isn't a worker of lawlessness. [taken from WotM]

We must keep in mind some of these prophecies were listed 1000 years before it happened. Logic will tell you that the Bible is supernatural unless you want to fulfill another prophecy of the Bible, by denying Him and His truth. (Proverbs 30:9, 2 Timothy 2:12, 2 Timothy 3:1-5, Titus 1:16, 2 Peter 2:1, Jude 1:4)

tinyurl.com/ShadowyProphecies

13 comments:

  1. That's amazing that in one book they prophesied all these things about the Messiah, then in another set of books about they Messiah, they came to pass.

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  2. I've mentioned sites like this before when it comes to "messianic prophecy":

    (Have a look around the site in that that second link, especially the Knowing Your Orchard and Judaism's Answer sections.) This may also be useful.

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  3. Hmmm- Dan: in addition to what Kaitlyn and Reynold said, keep in mind that the earliest existing manuscripts of the Tanakh are only a couple of centuries B.C. and that the Hebrews didn't even have a written language until around 900 B.C., so they couldn't possibly have "listed" prophecies in the OT 1000 years before the events of the NT.

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  4. ...eight souls were saved by water...

    Sorry, but they were saved from water, if the Noah account is accepted, so this doesn't work for two reasons:

    1. Baptism isn't analogous to being saved from drowning, as baptism is pretending to drown oneself -- really, it's more analogous to washing oneself, which argument has much greater legs with respect to your position.

    2. Peter used the wrong preposition, irrespective of whatever meaning you're attempting to inject. Incorrectly referring to a mythical event does not bear well on claims that the volume in question is inerrant.

    Another example is the sacrificing of a lamb to cover the sins in the OT to the sacrificing the Lamb of God for forgiveness of sins in the NT.

    Considering the fact that the phrase "lamb of god" appears nowhere in the OT, and once in the NT -- in one of the most recently written, non-synoptic books of the bible, no less -- I'm going to call this claim a semi-bluff. Jesus is referred to as the "lamb of god" only because those who make such references accept the notion of animal sacrifice, and accept the notion that Jesus was the human sacrifice which led to vicarious redemption for the rest of us. It's hardly a prophecy, but instead an after-the-"fact" nickname.

    [Funny aside -- since sacrificing goats was also acceptable, and indeed, since much of the time a "sin offering" was required to be a goat (a female goat, no less; most other times the "sin offering" was required to be a bull), why is Jesus called the "lamb of god," rather than the much more appropriate and amusing "kid of god"? I would also think it more appropriate to consider him the "bull of god," or "god's bull," rather than the clearly inappropriate "lamb of god."]

    The reason why Jesus said "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ... was because of the fulfillment of the prophetical [sic] explanation of Himself dying on the Cross in Psalm 22.

    (Note: "prophetical," while an apparently acceptable variation of "prophetic," is nonetheless redundant. It's like saying "ironical," which, apparently, is somehow also considered an acceptable variant. In any case, they both seem dumb, considering the superfluous addition of "-al" to the perfectly suitable adjective from which they stem.)

    Ahem. You were mentioning the alleged utterance of Jesus which matches a particular OT psalm, and claiming that this is therefore a fulfilled prophesy.

    Hogwash.

    First, it is well-known and generally accepted that Matthew and Luke borrowed liberally from Mark. Second, if one were predisposed to considering Psalm 22 to be prophetic, and to refer to a future messiah, then if one also strove to convince others through a written record that a certain person was that messiah, it would be only natural to invent such a statement by the person in question.

    This would be like Marty McFly, in Back to the Future, wearing a radiation suit, making odd gestures, and playing back a mixture of death metal and monotone future-sounding speech to convince his future father that he was Darth Vader from the planet Vulcan. Never mind the fact that Darth Vader was actually from Tatooine, and that Spock was from Vulcan. The finely tuned tale was especially believable to George McFly because he already believed aliens with strange sounding names and homeworlds existed, and had the technology to melt his brain.

    My all time favorite is The Ten Commandments are like the ten camels...

    If you like that one, you'll love this one:

    The bible predicts an alien event in Roswell, New Mexico

    It's AmaZiN9!!!11!!eleven!!one!!one hundred and eleven!!!!exclamation point!!!!!1

    Get real.

    --
    Stan

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  5. Stan wrote...
    "This would be like Marty McFly, in Back to the Future"

    Argumentum ad Back to the Futurum.

    Well done.

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  6. Stan- I love it! How can I resist buying that Bible Code software so I can find such amazing predictions myself? At only $67.95 + $4.00 p&h, I too can be a prophet! Hmmm- somehow, Darwin has given me the strength to resist...

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  7. Oh, and this is not strictly on topic, but the picture at the top of the post reminded me of this.

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  8. Stan,

    Although the Argumentum ad Back to the Futurum was impressive it was also expected. That is why I added verse 15. Any explanation about that point you conveniently left out?

    If you like that one, you'll love this one:

    Are you claiming that Bible code is equivalent to the Bible prophecies?

    I did forget to add the part of the sacrificial lamb during Passover referring to Jesus our Passover Lamb. (I Corinthians 5:7) The blood of the lamb over the door to save your first born and the Lamb of God, his first and only begotten son, shed His Blood to save everyone.

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  9.      Shadowy, indeed. In fact, unless one is already a christian, one has no reason to interpret them as prophecies. They read as stories of the alleged past.

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  10. Zilch,

    How can I resist buying that Bible Code software so I can find such amazing predictions myself? At only $67.95 + $4.00 p&h, I too can be a prophet!

    I will give my copy to anyone that knows Hebrew well (a prerequisite) if you want it. :)

    Going once...

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  11. Dan: shalom! Uh, Eretz Israel! Aleph, beth, gimel! Shir hamaalot mima'amakim keraticha adonai! That last bit is the beginning of Psalm 130: "Out of the depths I cry to you, O Lord", which stuck in my brain because I sang Arnold Schönberg's ridiculously difficult atonal setting of it in college, and I had to practice it a lot.

    Is that enough? Actually, Dan, I don't need the software. I can make prophecies that are just as good, or better, by just letting my Bible fall open and putting my finger down at random. I'm sure you'll agree.

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  12. Hey Dan, in terms of Prophecy, didn't Jesus predict to his disciples that the end of the world and his return would come before some of their lifetimes were over?

    And where are all the other believers?

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  13. Excellent post, Dan. Thank you.

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