We were having a discussion on the environment and I thought it would be better to voice my opinion on the matter. Now, I was going to point out the recent discoveries of the lies told in the name of the global warming and the whole cap and tax (trade) scenario and such but then I remembered what George Carlin said about it that almost mirrored what my beliefs about this subject were. Now, if we take out the belief of God in this manner, that the earth is 4 billion years old, and the occasional cuss word, Carlin's and my viewpoints about the arrogant environmentalists are pretty spot on. Save the planet? Give us a break.
WARNING!!! ***Strong language and uncensored material not meant for sensitive ears.***
Update: There is nothing we could do to destroy this planet at all!! Nature itself is far, far, more hostile then little ol us.
There is methane in the ocean that would destroy this planet's life in a few moments if it were to melt or be brought to the surface (like from an earthquake). There is toxic waste in the form of sulfur that will choke the life out of any of us if spewed into the atmosphere from a volcano. Earthquakes, Tsunamis, and Super Volcanoes are just a short few that could wipe us from the planet and all of science agrees that it will happen, it is just a matter of when. The evidence for a hostile planet is all there for us to see.
Not to mention that our destructive behavior will probably be our own demise anyway. So where do we stand in all of this? Nowhere. There is no need to crap and tax, there is no need to worry about any of it, because it will play out.
We all understand that Egypt, and the Sahara desert, was once was a forest, right? The planet changes and we just need to change with it...or cry about it.
"Carbon monoxide is a byproduct of the basic process whereby silicon is prepared from silicon dioxide"
Geek hypocrites. Get off the internet, you are destroying our environment!
Dan the video doesn't work, however I looked up George Carlin
ReplyDeleteis the video basicly this:
"George Carlin's "The Planet Is Fine"
George Carlin's "The Planet Is Fine"
We're so self-important. So self-important. Everybody's going to save something now. "Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save those snails." And the greatest arrogance of all: save the planet. What? Are these f***ing people kidding me? Save the planet, we don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned how to care for one another, we're gonna save the f***ing planet?
I'm getting tired of that s***. Tired of that s***. I'm tired of f***ing Earth Day, I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world safe for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don't give a s*** about the planet. They don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't. Not in the abstract they don't. You know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They're worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn't impress me.
Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are f***ed. Difference. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?
The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles...hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages...And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet...the planet...the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!
We're going away. Pack your s***, folks. We're going away. And we won't leave much of a trace, either. Thank God for that. Maybe a little styrofoam. Maybe. A little styrofoam. The planet'll be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance.
...cont
ReplyDeleteYou wanna know how the planet's doing? Ask those people at Pompeii, who are frozen into position from volcanic ash, how the planet's doing. You wanna know if the planet's all right, ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble, if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. Or how about those people in Kilowaia, Hawaii, who built their homes right next to an active volcano, and then wonder why they have lava in the living room.
The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we're gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, 'cause that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, "Why are we here?" Plastic...a******.
So, the plastic is here, our job is done, we can be phased out now. And I think that's begun. Don't you think that's already started? I think, to be fair, the planet sees us as a mild threat. Something to be dealt with. And the planet can defend itself in an organized, collective way, the way a beehive or an ant colony can. A collective defense mechanism. The planet will think of something. What would you do if you were the planet? How would you defend yourself against this troublesome, pesky species? Let's see... Viruses. Viruses might be good. They seem vulnerable to viruses. And, uh...viruses are tricky, always mutating and forming new strains whenever a vaccine is developed. Perhaps, this first virus could be one that compromises the immune system of these creatures. Perhaps a human immunodeficiency virus, making them vulnerable to all sorts of other diseases and infections that might come along. And maybe it could be spread sexually, making them a little reluctant to engage in the act of reproduction.
Well, that's a poetic note. And it's a start. And I can dream, can't I? See I don't worry about the little things: bees, trees, whales, snails. I think we're part of a greater wisdom than we will ever understand. A higher order. Call it what you want. Know what I call it? The Big Electron. The Big Electron...whoooa. Whoooa. Whoooa. It doesn't punish, it doesn't reward, it doesn't judge at all. It just is. And so are we. For a little while."
Dan,
ReplyDeleteYou do realise George is being sarcastic don't you? After all he is a comedian.
As if anyone is using the bumper sticker "save the planet" literally.
He poking fun at anyone who is agreeing with what he is saying.
Where George and I agree is we humans deserve whatever consequences our pollution bring upon ourselves. "I look at it this way... For centuries now, man has done everything he can to destroy, defile, and interfere with nature: clear-cutting forests, strip-mining mountains, poisoning the atmosphere, over-fishing the oceans, polluting the rivers and lakes, destroying wetlands and aquifers... so when nature strikes back, and smacks him on the head and kicks him in the nuts, I enjoy that. I have absolutely no sympathy for human beings whatsoever. None." George Carlin
So basically more pollution = more consequences, so environmentalism understanding this. Therefore is we want less consequences we need to reduce pollution.
As I've said before, Dan, one reason I bother debating with fundamentalists at all is because they vote in ways that affect me, and more to the point, will affect my children and grandchildren, and their own as well.
ReplyDeleteOne "advantage" to being a believer is that any responsibility for taking care of the Earth is taken away. Why worry about pollution, overpopulation, destruction of habitat, extinctions? All that matters is getting that ticket to Heaven: the Earth and all its life is just a test.
This is probably, nowadays, one of the reasons that are (probably unconsciously) attractive to many about Christianity: everyone who cares to look can see the destruction, and anyone who feels is dismayed by it. Rather than face up to the fact that we are poisoning the Earth, it's easier to adopt a belief that tells us that we are not responsible and that it doesn't matter anyway.
Unfortunately, the Earth reacts to actual happenings, and not to imaginary beings and wishful dreams. If we don't do something about it, life will likely be grim for our kids and grimmer for our grandkids.
George Carlin was a very funny, but very embittered man. While I agree with a lot of his barbs, I don't go along with his hopelessness about the human race. And while I agree that we humans will not destroy the Earth, I don't see any reason to celebrate our current standing as "Maybe Not Quite As Bad As The KT Event".
ReplyDeleteWe could do much better than we're doing, and all life on Earth would breathe a sigh of relief, including ourselves. That's the only real good worth pursuing, after all: life, love, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for all.
That was my point though...
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing we could do to destroy this planet at all!! Nature itself is far, far, more hostile then little ol us.
There is methane in the ocean that would destroy this planet's life in a few moments if it were to melt. There is toxic waste in the form of sulfur that will choke the life out of any of us if spewed into the atmosphere from a volcano. Earthquakes, Tsunamis, and Super Volcanoes are just a short few that could wipe us from the planet and all of science agrees that it will happen, it is just a matter of when. Not to mention that our destructive behavior will probably be our own demise anyway. So where do we stand in all of this? Nowhere. There is no need to crap and tax, there is no need to worry about any of it because it will play out.
We all understand the Egypt, and the Sahara desert, was once was a forest, right? The planet changes and we just need to change with it...or cry about it.
Dan, do you wear a helmet when you ride a bicycle?
ReplyDeleteIf so, why?
An impact with a car travelling 100kph will kill you anyway.
The sadest thing about Dan's attitude is that he home schools that crap to his children. Those poor kids is who I feel sorry for.
ReplyDeleterhiggs hit the nail on the head. Trying to save the environment is like wearing a bicycle helmet: it's something you do out of love, for your noggin or for your planet. It cannot be logically defended from first principles: it is a choice.
ReplyDeleteRhiggs,
ReplyDelete>>Dan, do you wear a helmet when you ride a bicycle?
Only when ridding into hookers.
Zilch,
>>rhiggs hit the nail on the head. Trying to save the environment is like wearing a bicycle helmet: it's something you do out of love, for your noggin or for your planet.
So you are OK with me not caring about the planet then? It is acceptable that I do not worry about such things? Or do you want to pass laws that MAKE people wear helmets and MAKE people conserve?
I asked: "Dan, do you wear a helmet when you ride a bicycle?"
ReplyDeleteDan said: "Only when ridding into hookers."
Ignoring the trademark bad spelling, I assume that was an attempted joke Dan.
I strongly advise against a career in comedy.
Since you ignored (or didn't understand) the point I was making, how about this...
Aside from teaching your kids about talking snakes and magic apples, do you teach them to clean up after themselves? If so, why? The planet could blow up tomorrow, so what's the point?
So you are OK with me not caring about the planet then? It is acceptable that I do not worry about such things? Or do you want to pass laws that MAKE people wear helmets and MAKE people conserve?
ReplyDeleteAre you okay with me dumping garbage in your yard? The problem is, if you don't wear a bike helmet, that's mostly your problem, unless you end up being an expense to taxpayers because of it somehow. But if you pollute, that's your problem and my problem too. And our children's problem, and their children's problem. Your garbage doesn't stay put in your yard.
Rhiggs,
ReplyDeleteMaybe that was a Freudian slip but I meant to say riding, although it is a comical picture to see me wearing a helmet while participating in ridding of a hooker.
Zilch,
>>Are you okay with me dumping garbage in your yard?
Are you? You do understand that your garbage goes into someone's back yard, right? Or are you just fine with it, just as long as it is not your back yard? Someone does in fact live near your garbage that is dumped in some land fill. Do you feel for those people? Or just for your kids and their kids? Do you believe Nature wants your garbage dumped into the environment? Do you create waste? If so, then why are you a burden on our planet?
People that exist, creates waste. Period. You are toxic to your environment no matter how careful you may tell yourself that you are. All true environmentalists should commit suicide so they do not create any more waste.
I hope you understand how much mining needed to happen to get all the silicon in that computer of yours. You are destroying our environment by being a geek.
My point is that tree hugging environmentalists are huge hypocrites. Just asked Al, and his fleet of vehicles, traveling all over the world to tell everyone about the damage of the environment.
At least I am honest enough to tell you the truth and not pretend to care when my actions say otherwise like you environmentalists who only care about "self" not others, or the planet. Let's just be honest.
"Carbon monoxide is a byproduct of the basic process whereby silicon is prepared from silicon dioxide"
ReplyDeleteGeek hypocrites. Get off the internet, you are destroying our environment!
I don't know why I bothered coming back here. I'll try once more.
ReplyDeleteDo you teach your kids to clean up after themselves?
If so, why?
Rhiggs,
ReplyDeleteI will speak slowly.
>>Do you teach your kids to clean up after themselves?
Yes.
>>If so, why?
Safety, so I do not trip over things left out.
"Safety, so I do not trip over things left out."
ReplyDeleteIs that really the only reason?
What if its something that couldn't possibly trip you up, like a candy bar wrapper?
Do you teach them to clean that up?
Do you let them litter in general?
>>Do you teach them to clean that up?
ReplyDeleteYes
>>Do you let them litter in general?
No.
Cleanliness is next to Godliness. What is your point that you want to get at? Why not pollute? We do all the time. Just because they haul it off does not mean the trash magically disappears.
Side note: It seems to me that show "hoarders is all about unbelieving people that feel their material items means more to them then family though. Maybe there is a correlation between atheism and hording. You think? :7)
Cleanliness promotes ethical behavior.
ReplyDeleteDan said
ReplyDelete>>Safety, so I do not trip over things left out.<<
I don't want to trip over Dioxin or other Mutagens or Carcinogens. That humans don't clean up after themselves.
Dan, Do you let your children smoke cigarettes? Why? / why not?
Geeks! Now Dan your backed in a corner and have to resort to persecution of intellectuals, typical creationist behaviour "quick, quick burn the blasphemers there making sense"
"Cleanliness is next to Godliness. What is your point that you want to get at? Why not pollute? We do all the time. Just because they haul it off does not mean the trash magically disappears."
ReplyDeleteYou do realize that you're contradicting yourself?
You advocate cleanliness and clean environments but at the same time say you don't care about polluting the planet.
My point is that just because something doesn't solve the overall problem doesn't mean you should throw it out. Its not all or nothing. A helmet will protect you in minor crashes, and not littering contributes to a cleaner society. Endorsing both won't completely stop bike crash fatalities or pollution, but even if it makes a small difference its worth it.
Your argument that the planet can destroy itself anyway is irrelevant. If it does, it does. But if we can promote more responsible use of natural resources and recycling of waste, what's wrong with that?
If its just that you don't want to pay the tax, then fair enough... but be honest and leave it at that...
But Dan!
ReplyDeleteThe're Mormons
Dan,
ReplyDeleteMuch like Zilch I don't really care what people have faith in, as long as it doesn't affect anyone else.
So to help you I'll point out in your own religion what your thinking/doing is wrong.
1st. You believe that the garden of eden was heaven on earth as depicted in Genesis. Then origanl sin happened and now we have 'fallen creation' Now I've never read anywhere that the garden of eden needed coal power stations.So all the modern conveinences you glutten into your life would be evils from fallen creation.
2nd Revelation 11:18 - The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great — and for destroying those who destroy the earth.
So your part in destroying the earth will prevent you going to heaven.
3rd Isaiah 24:4-6 - The earth dries up and withers, the world languishes and withers, the exalted of the earth languish. The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse consumes the earth; its people must bear their guilt. Therefore earth's inhabitants are burned up, and very few are left.
Sounds much like the concquence of deforestation and over farming
So Dan your own religion/god is condradicting your current beliefs/actions.
It's not looking good for you Dan like you said
>>I have also said that the Bible says to evaluate everything to see if it is of God by its fruit, good tree = good fruit; a bad tree can never bear good fruit.<<
Your a bad tree bearing bad fruit.
I guess you could ask for forgiveness however it doesn't work that way >>We pray (are thankful for) for His will and His glory, not ours.<<
Ant,
ReplyDelete>>1st. So all the modern conveinences you glutten into your life would be evils from fallen creation.
That may be true. But we are not to worry about such things and God's plan will play itself out. After all, you are doing God's will right now.
>>2nd Revelation 11:18--So your part in destroying the earth will prevent you going to heaven.
Cherry pick much? If you read Rev 11:5-7 you will see who the destroyers are. It has nothing to do with destroying the earth itself but the two that God sends.
Rev 11:5 "And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed."
"shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." The ones that are destroying the earth are the unbelievers.
>>3rd.-Sounds much like the concquence of deforestation and over farming
That may be the case. Isn't mankind wonderful? Certain animals were made to devour decaying flesh, like shrimp and lobster, and by eating them all, diseases will follow. Shrimp are the cockroaches of the ocean after all. Eat clean foods are the lessons from the Bible.
>>So Dan your own religion/god is condradicting your current beliefs/actions.
How so?
>>Your a bad tree bearing bad fruit.
You are not allowed to judge...yet. (Matthew 7:3-5)
>>We pray (are thankful for) for His will and His glory, not ours.
Amen!
Although I agree with you concerning global warming and endangered species. but I am angered that a blog meant to represent Christians would upload a video like that in a positive light.
ReplyDeleteClean up your act.
Also, I believe the economy should be treated like we should treat the planet/animals. If it is dying out, let it. No more bail-outs.
/2cents
-Cullen Webb
Nation Pains
>> But we are not to worry about such things and God's plan will play itself out. After all, you are doing God's will right now.<<
ReplyDeleteThere you have it folks the mindset of the creationist in one paragraph. everything is God plan.
There is no God Dan and if there was what kind of plan would put people though the suffering caused by pollution?
Yeah, yeah, yeah you can't understand Gods plan blah, blah, blah, it has its reasons.
Your trully are blinded by faith. Again I feel deeply sorry for your childern.
Isn't creationism wonderful invent a God to support there own bigotry and agenda, write a book about it then claim there belief are real because it written in that book.
Unfortunatly the people who will suffer most from human pollution are the poeple not responcible for it.
Cullwn,
ReplyDelete>>Clean up your act.
You're right. I tried to find it with bleeps and such but could not.
I never said that I was anything but a wretched sinner though, but thanks for the rebuke...I needed that.
Ant,
ReplyDelete>>Isn't creationism wonderful invent a God to support there own bigotry and agenda, write a book about it then claim there belief are real because it written in that book.
Why are you fighting the "evolution" of mankind? If man were meant to evolve into a God believing and God fearing species then why are you, as an environmentalist, combating mankind's evolution? Why are you so against nature?
Dan
ReplyDelete>> If man were meant to evolve into a God believing and God fearing species then why are you, as an environmentalist, combating mankind's evolution<<
Creationism is one answer to the question, how did life develop different forms?
For a long time this theory had no adversary, so it thrived into the various adaptations creationism have today that war amounst themselves.
Since the discovery of evolution. Creationism theories have an opponent Evolution. The habitat these all these theories share is "Human Questioning" which ever has better answers will be better survive with less stress (natural selection).
Now we are seeing the freedom of education and logic (evolution) being taught and creationism answers are finally being accepted as mythology. Most Creationist theories are now extinct and the remaining are endangered species.
So Dan, why are you fighting against logic and education? Why don't you adapt and get educated? Unless of course your pride is getting the way. I would imagine the sudden realisation of the stupidity of what you have been believing in and the damage such beliefs have would be rather confronting and embarrassing.
Don't worry Dan your not along there are lots of people being educated these days actually the vast majority. It never too late to learn something and we won't hold it against you.
Dan: I've decided to give your blog a new link.
ReplyDeleteHere it is. I hope you like it.
@Dan
ReplyDeleteAlthough I would like to see cleaner videos, I support the way you are handling the situation here.
I will be following your blog to see what becomes of it.
-Cullen Webb
Nation Pains
"There is nothing we could do to destroy this planet at all!! Nature itself is far, far, more hostile then little ol us."
ReplyDeleteHow come it is "nature" that makes tsunamis and earthquakes, but if one small baby is found in the rubble it is a "miracle from God"? If God made this planet perfect, then why did he make the world with clashing tectonic plates? even if he doesn't have the power to fix the planet, he could at least warn the people that they are about to be wiped out by a major earthquake, or do you agree with that evil man, Pat Robertson?
It must be awful for you to beleive that your God is so nasty and vengeful. Doesn't it make you scared? He might have it in for you or your family next.
Maybe you worked on a Saturday (the Sabbath) or lie occasionally.
Clare,
ReplyDelete>>If God made this planet perfect, then why did he make the world with clashing tectonic plates?
Addressed and Answered
>>It must be awful for you to beleive(sic) that your God is so nasty and vengeful.
Correction: God is so righteous.
>>Doesn't it make you scared?
That should make all of us have fear, like a child fears a spanking if they run out in the street after the parent told them not to.(milk) When the child grows up then the child understand the perfect love and doesn't fear the spankings but honors and respects the parent.(meat).
1 Corinthians 3:2 "I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able."
Hebrews 5:11-13 "Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe."
A proud unrepentant man needs the milk of hell and damnation and lake of fire talk because that is where he is headed. After you grow up, understanding the Lord, and you are 'born again' you don't fear the punishment anymore because it isn't for you, it's for the sinners. Do you fear going to jail for a DUI when you sit at home drinking a glass of water? Of course not, that is absurd, but if you were drinking scotch all day and then get behind the wheel then yes be afraid, be very afraid. It is wise to face your heavenly Father in fear when you have broken His law. When you Repent (turn away from sin, turn away from breaking His laws. 1 John 3:4) and place your trust and faith in Jesus, that He washed you clean and took your punishment for you, then you are forgiven and no longer need be afraid of Him but you respect and love Him for teaching you, and you chose not to live to break His laws, out of honor and respect, not fear anymore.
Do I understand you correctly, Dan. I checked to your link "addressed and answered". It sounds as though you really believe Adam and Eve were real people! The imperfect world is a result of Eve eating an apple, that God placed in front of her and deliberately tempted her with, adding a talking snake for good measure What a nice guy! He simply set a trap for the alleged Adam and Eve. So all those Haitians have to suffer because Eve disobeyed God? What a tyrant! Do you really want to worship such a nasty God. Of course, you think you will be OK and go to heaven just because you repented your sins and said you believe in Jesus. How is that different from Catholics going to confession? It is just as hypocritical.
ReplyDeleteDoes any else notice throughout every blog topic once Dan gets debunked and his rediculas points get shot down he goes into LA LA land and just waits untill someone else post somthing he can respond to? Debunking Atheists, what a crock, Dan rename this site "This is what I believe LA LA LA LA LA"
ReplyDelete- Now Dan's going to accuse me of just feeling left out or that I'm just upset cause I got ignored. This is Dan typical come back.
So Dan, why are you still fighting against logic and education? Why don't you adapt and get educated? Of course your pride is getting the way. I would imagine the sudden realisation of the stupidity of what you have been believing in and the damage such beliefs have would be rather confronting and embarrassing.
LOL yes Claire that what Dan believes, Funny thing is Dan is a "grown"? man.
ReplyDeleteUmmmmm how come all humans are not morboardly retarded as a results of Adam and Eves insest? Cain and Able insest with their sisters? If the Adam and Eve myth everyone would be retarded from exsessive inbreeding.
Clare,
ReplyDelete>>He simply set a trap for the alleged Adam and Eve.
Do you set traps for your children when you tell them not to cross the street?
>>that God placed in front of her and deliberately tempted her with
Do you take instructions and guidance from your parents as being tempted? Hmm. Society does not allow child molestation. Is that being tempted to you?
>>So all those Haitians have to suffer because Eve disobeyed God?
No because we all live in a fallen creation.
>>Of course, you think you will be OK and go to heaven just because you repented your sins and said you believe in Jesus. How is that different from Catholics going to confession?
Where in the bible does it say to confess to some dude to be forgiven? Again it is all about justification. Where is the need in Christ if some dude can forgiven your sins?
Like I said, RCC states that it is not the Scriptures, nor tradition, nor the early church fathers, nor anything other than the Church’s Magisterium, personified in the pope, that is the ultimate and final authority and standard of truth. Now does that sound right or biblical to you? Again the fruit says false religion. In that same breath though, I believe there are soundly saved Christians in that church, but they are Christians in spite of the Church (RCC)doctrine.
>>It is just as hypocritical.
Apples and Oranges. (Matthew 23:8-12, Proverbs 3:5-6,1 Peter 5:3, 1 Timothy 2:5-6,1 John 2:27)
RCC is a false doctrine and religion.
Ant,
ReplyDelete>>Cain and Able insest(sic) with their sisters? If the Adam and Eve myth everyone would be retarded from exsessive inbreeding.
Keep in mind that the pure and good DNA from Adam descended to Noah and his family, and we all came from those 8 people. This is evidenced in the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and Science. Science calls her Mitochondrial Eve though.
Go Antzilla! Of course we do not just come from 8 people!
ReplyDeleteDan, go back to school and learn some basic science.
(not taught by Creationists or ID folk). If you were raied atheist, who convinced you to become a fundy Xtian? Did you hear voices in your head? 20 is around the age that shchizophrenia begins
Sorry about the typo. Should read "schizophrenia".
ReplyDeleteLOL
ReplyDeleteSo if the 'pure' DNA desendance from Adam to Noah myth were true, we would all be morbordly retarded from excess inbreeding by Noahs childern.
LOL do you really believe what you say Dan? or are you an Atheist taking the piss out of Creationists?
Something like "I can't believe they believe I would believe that."
Clare,
ReplyDelete>>Dan, go back to school and learn some basic science.
Do you really want to stoop to ad hominem attacks?
>>not taught by Creationists or ID folk
Discounting scientists that believe in God is being a bigot to boot and talk about straw man!
>>If you were raied(sic) atheist, who convinced you to become a fundy Xtian?
God Himself. No one else is capable of changing a wicked heart.
>>Did you hear voices in your head?
Never once.
>>20 is around the age that schizophrenia begins
O'rly? Is that when yours started?
Ant,
ReplyDelete>>we would all be morbordly(sic) retarded from excess inbreeding by Noahs childern(sic).
The DNA was not as corrupted back then. Plus it was not against the Law, set forth by God to Moses. After that, then there were consequences for disobeying His Laws.
Claire maybe you should of said,
ReplyDelete>>Dan, go back to school and learn some basic science.
(taught by SOMEONE OTHER THAN Creationists or ID folk).
Dan, to only except "science?" from the minute amount of "scientists?" that believe in God is being a ingorant bigot.
Oh wait thats what creationism was MADE for.
Christain mythology is so funny. ILMFO thanks Dan you crack me up.
ReplyDelete... I mean for people thousands or even hundreds of years ago to believe this crap I understand. But today 2010 ACE with all the knowlegde avalible to believe creationism you would have to really, really try to bypass your interlect or have no interlect. or be brainwashed since a child.
"If poeple don't want their beliefs laughed at, then they shouldn't have such funny beliefs"
I wanted to clarify on something. When I supported Dan earlier, I was supporting the fact that mankind should not try to control everything.
ReplyDeleteAnd in response to an earlier comment:
god created a perfect world. We sinned and brought death into the world, and we must now live with that punishment.
Ant,
ReplyDeleteCorrection: But today 2010 AC (not ACE) nice try though.
Ant,
ReplyDelete>>But today 2010 ACE with all the knowlegde avalible to believe creationism you would have to really, really try to bypass your interlect or have no interlect. or be brainwashed since a child.
Van Braun (Died June 16, 1977), the foremost rocket scientist of the 20th century whose genius made the US space program and the Apollo moon landing possible, was once quoted as saying: "My experiences with science led me to God. They challenge science to prove the existence of God. But must we really light a candle to see the sun?"
“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.”
ReplyDelete-Werner Heisenberg was one of the most creative physicists of the twentieth century. In 1932, he was awarded Nobel Prize in Physics for the creation of quantum mechanics.
Robert Jastrow (b. 1925) PhD. Physics, recipient of NASA Medal for Exceptional Scientific Achievement.
ReplyDelete"At present, science has no satisfactory answer to the question of the origin of life on the earth. Perhaps the appearance of life on the earth is a miracle. Scientists are reluctant to accept that view, but their choices are limited; either life was created on the earth by the will of a being outside the grasp of scientific understanding, or it evolved on our planet spontaneously, through chemical reactions occurring in nonliving matter lying on the surface of the planet. The first theory places the question of the origin of life beyond the reach of scientific inquiry. It is a statement of faith in the power of a Supreme Being not subject to the laws of science. The second theory is also an act of faith. The act of faith consists in assuming that the scientific view of the origin of life is correct, without having concrete evidence to support that belief." Until the Sun Dies (1977) pp. 62-63
Dan,
ReplyDeleteFirstly congrates! you typed into google an found some references to scientists that agree with creationism. So what! It's like autism someone could be brilliant in there field of expertise but completely retarded in others. What is the overwhelming conscious of biologists say about evolution?
>>"At present, science has no satisfactory answer to the question of the origin of life on the earth. <<
TRUE. so does that mean creationism wins by default? NO.
>>Perhaps the appearance of life on the earth is a miracle. Scientists are reluctant to accept that view,<<
Yes because this view has no evidence. The fact that miracle theory is written in a really old book is not evidence. The bible is only evidence of how old creation theory is.
>>The second theory is also an act of faith. The act of faith consists in assuming that the scientific view of the origin of life is correct, without having concrete evidence to support that belief<<
NO Dan the scientific view is
>>At present, science has no satisfactory answer to the question of the origin of life on the earth.<<
So we'll continue to ask the questions required until a satisfactory answers are found. If evidence is found for creationism then that would become the scientific view.
Da,
ReplyDeleteIt would be hard for humas to "destroy" the earth. But it is obvious that we are destroyng our environment in the same way that an overpoplulation of rabbits destroy their environment.
Anyone that thinks we are not affecting the environment needs to look back at the consumption rate of the early nineteenth century compared to now, compared to available resources.
Earth has a cancer eating it up, and that cancer is humans.
There are some large scale extinctions on the way, but they have nothing to do with the will of some God.
The human race and all life originally were living on the interest paid out by the earth. We have now used up all the interest and are woring on spending the principal. Nothing can be more obvious.
Froggie,
ReplyDelete>>There are some large scale extinctions on the way, but they have nothing to do with the will of some God.
Yea, that is what Bill Gates is saying at around 4:00 to 4:51 to lower the population by 15% with reproductive vaccines.
“If we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services (abortion), we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 per cent.”
What a great guy. You're all sick.
There's nothing I love more than a hot cup of work brewed joe in the morning, topped to the rim in my Styrofoam cup.
ReplyDeleteIt's handy, because I can use it later in the day for chew spit.
At Hugo's suggestion in another thread, I am not going to argue with Dan any more as it is pointless.
ReplyDeleteThe only good thing to come out of this blog is that it will convince more Christians to become agnositc or even atheist. I don't mean because of the sensible atheist arguments, but because of what Dan himself posts. Bye. Have fun Antz!
BYthe way, I love Zilch's new link-it's circular!
I'm glad you like my new link, Clare- it leads to a site that seems exactly like this one, but in which everything must be understood ironically: that is, Dan presents a caricature of the fundamentalist position, and (most of) the rest of us are lampoons of non-fundies.
ReplyDeleteWhatever. Cheers from springy Vienna, zilch
It funny how religion relies no not knowing something.
ReplyDeleteReligious believer living in 1600: "Science can't explain how the Moon moves around Earth, therefore it points to supernatural control, and is evidence of god."
Religious believer living in 1700: "Science can't explain what lightning is, therefore it points to a supernatural origin (most likely to punish us for bad deeds), and is evidence of god."
Religious believer living in 1800: "Science can't explain how disease is caused, therefore it points to a supernatural origin, (most likely to punish us for bad deeds), and is evidence of god."
Religious believer living in 1900: "Science can't explain how stars get their energy to shine for so long, therefore it points to supernatural power, and is evidence of god."
Religious believer living in 2000: "Science can't explain how life originated from non-life, therefore it points to a supernatural origin, and is evidence of god."
Religious believer living in 2100: (I don't know what they'll say. Which gap will they run to next?)
Anzilla
ReplyDeleteAll the things you mentioned still point to a supernatural origin. Only imbeciles believe that there is no God. The energy stars use to shine, where did it come from? How did the moon know that it should move around earth? How did the earth calculate that this is the perfect distance from the sun to sustain life?
You believe that everything in the universe happened by chance. It was kaboom (where did the energy come from) and everything alligned itself perfectly. Then on a planet called earth, a cell poofed into existence and started evolving into all the living things on the planet. I hope you realise how stupid that sounds. I mean, what are the chances of that happening, 1 in a gazillion?
Stewie,
ReplyDeleteI would like to think that you are a Poe but sadly I expect that your post was genuine.
"The energy stars use to shine, where did it come from?"
The vast majority of it comes from the energy contained within hydrogen atoms that is released as part of continuous fusion reactions. If your question is where did that energy come from, then you are simply asking where matter comes from, as energy is simply matter multiplied by the speed of light squared. In my opinion energy/matter might have always existed. There is no evidence to suggest that it ever didn't exist (see here for more).
"How did the moon know that it should move around earth?"
It didn't. The moon doesn't 'know' anything. It orbits the earth due to gravitational attraction. In fact, the centrifugal forces generated by the orbit are ever so slightly stronger than gravity, meaning that the moon is moving away from the earth at a rate of 1.6 inches a year. Surely this shoddy work is not that of an intelligent designer.
"How did the earth calculate that this is the perfect distance from the sun to sustain life?"
Again it didn't. The earth doesn't 'calculate' anything. Life arose on earth because it can. It's really as simple as that. An analogy would be to pour some water into a glass and then wonder how did the glass know the exact shape it needed to be for the water to fit? Of course, the shape of the water is defined by the shape of the glass. Similarly, life is defined by the environment, not the other way around. The environment was not created with life in mind.
"You believe that everything in the universe happened by chance. It was kaboom (where did the energy come from) and everything alligned itself perfectly. Then on a planet called earth, a cell poofed into existence and started evolving into all the living things on the planet."
No, not everything happened by chance. Some things did but the majority happened due to local environmental constraints. And most rational people don't think that a cell just poofed into existence, so you are attacking a strawman. On the contrary, the biblical account talks of almost everything just poofing into existence in 6 days.
"I hope you realise how stupid that sounds. I mean, what are the chances of that happening, 1 in a gazillion?"
The chances you speak of are of course astronomical if you don't understand probability. If you look back at multiple events and apply probability with respect to future events, then you are making an error. Imagine dealing a deck of cards out and then looking at the specific 52-card sequence. By your logic the odds of that specific 52-card sequence being dealt are so improbable that it can never happen. But you have just dealt it so it can and did happen. By your rationale, the first time you dealt the cards, it must have been a miracle since the odds against that specific sequence appearing are astronomically high.
I assume you believe in talking snakes, magic apples, and a man who rose from the dead who is his own father.
I hope you realise how stupid that sounds...
Thanks rhiggs,
ReplyDeleteRhiggs
ReplyDelete"In my opinion energy/matter might have always existed. There is no evidence to suggest that it ever didn't exist."
Sorry, but your opinion contradicts the laws of thermodynamics.
"Life arose on earth because it can. It's really as simple as that."
No, it's not that simple. Everything happens for a reason. Things don't just happen 'because they can'.
"An analogy would be to pour some water into a glass and then wonder how did the glass know the exact shape it needed to be for the water to fit? Of course, the shape of the water is defined by the shape of the glass. Similarly, life is defined by the environment, not the other way around. The environment was not created with life in mind."
Oh, that's a gross oversimplification of life my friend. Life is so much more complicated than the shape of water being defined by the shape of the glass. We are talking about billions of living and breathing beings here, not a substance.
"No, not everything happened by chance. Some things did but the majority happened due to local environmental constraints."
Yes, everything happened by chance according to the big bang theory. There was an explosion and everything placed itself accordingly. That's chance.
"And most rational people don't think that a cell just poofed into existence, so you are attacking a strawman."
Where did it come from then, Rhiggs?
"I assume you believe in talking snakes, magic apples, and a man who rose from the dead who is his own father.I hope you realise how stupid that sounds..."
Wrong again. I'm not a christian (yet). I used to be an atheist, but, like Antony Flew, common sense made me realise that God does exist. I'm still searching for thee truth.
Stewie,
ReplyDelete>>Life is so much more complicated than the shape of water being defined by the shape of the glass. We are talking about billions of living and breathing beings here, not a substance.<<
The anology still goes water/life adapts it the glass/environment no matter how much or little there is.
>>Yes, everything happened by chance according to the big bang theory. There was an explosion and everything placed itself accordingly. That's chance.<<
WRONG! it not chance but certainty when the right circumstances are prevelent. ie all matter and energy compressed too close together WILL result in a "Big Bang"
Everything is cause and effect.
>>And most rational people don't think that a cell just poofed into existence, so you are attacking a strawman."
Where did it come from then, Rhiggs?<<
Scientists are working on that. Because we don't have a diffiniate anwser YET does that make prove magic theory? NO!
>>Wrong again. I'm not a christian (yet). I used to be an atheist, but, like Antony Flew, common sense made me realise that God does exist. I'm still searching for thee truth.<<
No your lack of intelligence or giving up finding anwsers as it's too hard. "creationism is easy, anwser is god did it, and think no more."
Antzilla
ReplyDelete"The anology still goes water/life adapts it the glass/environment no matter how much or little there is."
Water needs me to pour it into the glass for it to adapt to the glass. It doesn't just appear in the glass for no reason. Likewise, life needed someone to put it here for it to adapt to the environment. It didn't just appear from nowhere and for no reason.
"WRONG! it not chance but certainty when the right circumstances are prevelent. ie all matter and energy compressed too close together WILL result in a "Big Bang" Everything is cause and effect."
Firstly, I don't think you understand that energy couldn't have always existed. If it did, it would have been completely useless/lost forever by the time the 'big bang' occured. Secondly, explosions cause chaos and destruction, not order and life.
"Scientists are working on that. Because we don't have a diffiniate anwser YET does that make prove magic theory?"
Oh, so are you open to the idea that God exists? The are no definite answers in science, right?
"No your lack of intelligence or giving up finding anwsers as it's too hard."
So believing in God makes me an imbecile? You sound like a bigot to me.
"creationism is easy, anwser is god did it, and think no more."
Is that so? Well, at least it makes more sense than things happening for no reason.
Stewie,
ReplyDeleteRe: Thermodynamics
Energy can exist in more than one form. There are many types of energy, not to mention the conversion of energy to matter. All of these transformations prevent energy from simply becoming ‘lost’. It can never be lost, only changed into other forms. It is amusing that you happily refer to the second law of thermodynamics with an apparent complete disregard for the first. Furthermore, the increase in entropy does not prevent pockets of order from forming, otherwise life would be impossible with or without God. Think about it, you were once a single cell and thus less complex and ordered than you are now.
“explosions cause chaos and destruction, not order and life”
The ‘big bang’ was NOT an explosion, it was an expansion. And by the way, explosions can cause order and life, it just takes time. New ordered ecosystems can emerge in the aftermath of an explosion.
“Life is so much more complicated than the shape of water being defined by the shape of the glass. We are talking about billions of living and breathing beings here, not a substance.”
Of course life is more complicated than the shape of water. Are you not familiar with how an analogy works? The point is that life is shaped by its environment just as water is shaped by the glass. The increased complexity of life compared to water has no bearing on this simple idea. Why do you think that our physiology is so similar to the environment in terms of water content and gaseous percentages? This is known as homeostasis. It would be unnecessary if God had chosen a permanent physiology for life.
“Yes, everything happened by chance according to the big bang theory. There was an explosion and everything placed itself accordingly. That's chance.”
I’m sorry but you are wrong. Please link to the formal big bang theory which states explicitly that ‘everything happened by chance’. Otherwise, stop talking nonsense.
Re the first cell not just poofing into existence, Stewie asked: “Where did it come from then, Rhiggs?”
Good question. It is an active area of research called abiogenesis. Can you please indicate how God poofed the first cell into existence along with everything else? Is this being looked into? If you can’t explain this scientifically then you are in no position to deride others for not yet knowing how the first cell arose.
ANTZILLA said "creationism is easy, anwser is god did it, and think no more."
To which Stewie replied: “Is that so? Well, at least it makes more sense than things happening for no reason.”
Is that so indeed? May I refer you back to the talking snakes, magic apples, and a man who rose from the dead who is his own father. Do these things make sense to you, seeing that you demand scientific proof of how the first cell arose? Not to mention that nobody said ‘things happen for no reason’ except you. Things happen due to a small amount of chance, but mostly due to local environmental constraints.
Stewie said to ANTZILLA: “So believing in God makes me an imbecile? You sound like a bigot to me.”
That’s very interesting Stewie. Let’s remind ourselves of what you said in your original post......
“Only imbeciles believe that there is no God.”
So, not only are you a bigot by your own standards Stewie, but you are also a hypocrite.
Charming.
Hmmm, the links don't seem to be working in my last post...
ReplyDeleteNever mind.
Dan, did you censor my links?
ReplyDeleteI notice one of Zilch's links in an earlier comment is also not working...
Stewie said, "Is that so? Well, at least it makes more sense than things happening for no reason."
ReplyDeleteI didn't say things happen for no reason! I said everything is cause and effect.
However the difference between Creationists and I is that when I don't know the cause of somthing I don't have a give up and think " some kind of God did it for some reason known only to itself"
Cause and effect, makes more sense than, "God did for some reason know only to itself"
---
Imbecile refers to mental retardation, as well as a type of criminal. The term is closely associated with psychology, psychiatry, criminology, and eugenics.
It arises from the Latin word imbecillus, meaning weak, or weak-minded. "Imbecile" was once applied to people with an IQ of 26-50, between "moron" (IQ of 51-70) and "idiot" (IQ of 0-25).
The term was further refined into mental and moral imbecility.
---
So people who beleive in God who thought they were superior/closer to God, went around killing everyone else who didn't believe in there particular God and killed people who didn't look like them/God.
So YES people who believe in God are Imbeciles by definition.
I won't be a bigot and hold your imbecility against you however.
Stewie what is your definition of God?
"There are many types of energy, not to mention the conversion of energy to matter. All of these transformations prevent energy from simply becoming ‘lost’. It can never be lost, only changed into other forms. It is amusing that you happily refer to the second law of thermodynamics with an apparent complete disregard for the first."
ReplyDeleteThere many forms of energy but there is one type of energy: kinetic energy.
I have taken all laws of thermodynamics into consideration. While the first says energy can't be created or destroyed but can change from one form to another, the second states that energy can be useless. Therefore, it can be lost, not destroyed, lost forever, never to be used again. Let me make a simple example. When I clap my hands, energy is transformed to sound and heat, but after that, the energy becomes useless, it can't be re-used, it's lost forever. Still confused? Here's another: the sun and all the stars will not shine forever, they will burn out, their energy will be lost forever, never to be used again. I hope get the drift.
So you see, Mr. rhiggs, the 'singularity' couldn't have always existed, otherwise the 'big bang' wouldn't have occured. If anything, it seems like you are the one who is disregarding the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
"Please link to the formal big bang theory which states explicitly that ‘everything happened by chance’. Otherwise, stop talking nonsense."
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't have to state that everything happened by chance, but when you put 2 and 2 together, you reach that conclusion. You have also admited that 'some things did' happen by chance. Can you state a big bang theory that states that some things happened by chance? No. So stop asking silly questions.
"Is that so indeed? May I refer you back to the talking snakes, magic apples, and a man who rose from the dead who is his own father. Do these things make sense to you, seeing that you demand scientific proof of how the first cell arose?"
ReplyDeleteNo, you may not refer me to those things. Which part of 'I am not Christian' do you not understand? and I demand scientific proof of how the first cell arose because we are dealing with a scientific theory here. God is not a scientific theory.
"That’s very interesting Stewie. Let’s remind ourselves of what you said in your original post......“Only imbeciles believe that there is no God.”So, not only are you a bigot by your own standards Stewie, but you are also a hypocrite. Charming."
The point I was trying to make to Antzilla was that is a hypocrite. He has been labeling creationsts/christians as bigots, but he appears to be one himself.
"So YES people who believe in God are Imbeciles by definition.I won't be a bigot and hold your imbecility against you however."
and people who believe they are mutant monkeys no matter how flawed the theory is aren't? It sure qualifies as mental retardation imo.
"Stewie what is your definition of God?"
A superior being, an intelligent designer. I'm not entirely sure yet. Like I said, I'm still searching, believing in God does not meen you've given up on looking for answers.
Stewie,
ReplyDelete"So you see, Mr. rhiggs, the 'singularity' couldn't have always existed, otherwise the 'big bang' wouldn't have occured."
I never said anything about a singularity always existing. Just that, in my opinion, energy/matter may have always existed. What form it took before the big bang is open to question, and probably impossible to know. But as there is no evidence of nothing ever existing (so to speak) then I must assume that something has always existed. You probably call this something God, I call it energy/matter. The fact that energy can become useless after a clap is somewhat irrelevant. That energy still exists. You say that it will never be used again, and in practical terms you are right. But if the universe was compressed to the size of an atom right now, all of this 'usless' energy would still contribute to the total, which would be the exact same amount of energy that was present at the big bang.
Re the big bang theory:
"It doesn't have to state that everything happened by chance, but when you put 2 and 2 together, you reach that conclusion. You have also admited that 'some things did' happen by chance. Can you state a big bang theory that states that some things happened by chance? No. So stop asking silly questions."
You truly are a fine shifter of goalposts.
You claimed that...
"everything happened by chance according to the big bang theory"
...which is clearly ridiculous. The fact that you put 2 and 2 together and get 5 is of no significance.
I gave my personal opinion that some things happen by chance but MOST THINGS HAPPEN BY LOCAL ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINTS. You seem to keep forgetting this bit.
Note I did not cite any theories here, let alone the big bang one.
So your challenge to me to "state a big bang theory that states that some things happened by chance" is completely non-sensical.
In fact, your question is the silly one, seeing as I didn't refer to the big bang theory, whereas you explicity did, thus justifying my question to you.
Oh and it hasn't escaped my attention, or those of any others reading this, that you have failed to respond to most of my points in the last 2 posts.
I can only assume that you concede to the following points:
-Your comment about the moon 'knowning' to orbit the earth was absurd
-Your comment about the earth 'calculating' the right conditions for life was idiotic
-Your application of probability was wrong (or are card dealers miracle workers?)
-Explosions can result in order and life
-Human physiology is determined by and changes with the environment
-You have no clue how God poofed anything into existence (thus highlighting your hypocritical demands that scientists prove how the first cell appeared)
-You consider belief in talking snakes and magic apples more rational than simply not believing in a supernatural being of whom there is no evidence
-You are a bigot (by your own standards since you called others imbeciles)
-You are a hypocrite (due to your double standards on the calling of names)
Have I forgotten anything?
I see you answered some of those points on your next post. (Hint: write it all in one post, much easier...)
ReplyDelete"No, you may not refer me to those things. Which part of 'I am not Christian' do you not understand? and I demand scientific proof of how the first cell arose because we are dealing with a scientific theory here. God is not a scientific theory."
I don't care if you're not a Christian.
Scroll up. ANTZILLA asked you about Creationism, which you stated makes more sense.....
"The point I was trying to make to Antzilla was that is a hypocrite. He has been labeling creationsts/christians as bigots, but he appears to be one himself."
That still doesn't excuse the fact that you called a lot of people imbeciles, and then gave out to him when he did the same. That classifies you as a hypocrite.
BTW I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy here. I do not care what you call me or I call you.
"and people who believe they are mutant monkeys no matter how flawed the theory is aren't? It sure qualifies as mental retardation imo."
Ah, so you don't understand evolution on even a basic level. That explains a lot.
Rhiggs,
ReplyDelete>>Dan, did you censor my links?
As you know, I don't censor anything. Right above the comment box here, it shows you how to link to something if that helps, you student. :7)
"I never said anything about a singularity always existing. Just that, in my opinion, energy/matter may have always existed. What form it took before the big bang is open to question, and probably impossible to know."
ReplyDeleteSo you believe in something that is probably impossible to know. Isn't that faith, blind faith? You give religious people grief for believing in people and events that are probably impossible to prove when you are no different. Doesn't that make you a hypocrite?
"I gave my personal opinion that some things happen by chance but MOST THINGS HAPPEN BY LOCAL ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINTS. You seem to keep forgetting this bit."
The bottom line is that there is an element of chance. You can't deny it.
"In fact, your question is the silly one, seeing as I didn't refer to the big bang theory, whereas you explicity did, thus justifying my question to you."
Oh, I'm sorry. What were you refering to then, your lotto ticket?
"-Your comment about the moon 'knowning' to orbit the earth was absurd"
Perhaps...
"-Your comment about the earth 'calculating' the right conditions for life was idiotic"
The question was not, but the way I put it probably was. What I really wanted to know was how and why life began on earth specificaly. Why couldn't life start in Mars and adapt to that environment?
"-Your application of probability was wrong (or are card dealers miracle workers?)"
you have a point
"-Explosions can result in order and life"
Your links don't work. Anyway, I can assume that sunlight, water and neutrients cause life, not explosions.
"-You are a bigot (by your own standards since you called others imbeciles)
-You are a hypocrite..."
Yes, yes, we're all bigots and hypocrites aren't we?
Stewie,
ReplyDeleteRhiggs: "I never said anything about a singularity always existing. Just that, in my opinion, energy/matter may have always existed. What form it took before the big bang is open to question, and probably impossible to know."
>>So you believe in something that is probably impossible to know. Isn't that faith, blind faith? You give religious people grief for believing in people and events that are probably impossible to prove when you are no different. Doesn't that make you a hypocrite?
Well yes it does, and thanks for noticing that key point. Also, these are the same people that put their faith in secular scientists, like Darwin and Dawkins, and trusting in their decision making processes.
They take it on faith that the secular scientists reports and textbooks are speaking the "gospel" truth and they move forward on those assumptions. They never take things into account as to the accuracy of peer reviews either.
Let me quote the report: "The peer review system does not always detect fraud, plagiarism, poor quality or gross error and there is editorial reluctance to correct errors or to publish criticisms of sacred cows or 'controversial' or nonconformist views of skeptics and dissident minorities."
So their god is self, or mankind, and will never admit that they are actually against God Himself. They place their faith in the pilot on the plane they are about to board and they place their faith in man to tell them where they came from. And yes they believe it as the gospel truth. That is also why I plead with them to put Jesus on like a parachute.
Stewie, you made me laugh on your show and here on this blog. I love how these conversations are going, you are doing a fine job. Please stay and please keep searching for that truth. My family's prayers are with you to find that truth very soon. Please let me know if I can help you with anything at all.
Uhm... thanks Dan.
ReplyDelete"Stewie's God definition :
ReplyDeleteA superior being, an intelligent designer. I'm not entirely sure yet. Like I said, I'm still searching, believing in God does not meen you've given up on looking for answers.<<
So you would be comfortable with the theory is this superior being/IDer could be an alien playing with a "universe making devise"?
Stewie
ReplyDelete>>The point I was trying to make to Antzilla was that is a hypocrite. He has been labeling creationsts/christians as bigots<<
A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.
The correct use of the term requires the elements of obstinacy, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing devotion.
Bigotry is one of Religions
prerequisites.
Hypocrisy is the act of persistently pretending to hold beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually hold. Hypocrisy is thus a kind of lie.
Hypocrisy is another Reilgious prerecquisite.
>> I can assume that sunlight, water and neutrients cause life, not explosions.<<
So you do believe in abiogenesis?
LOL stewie your bigotry and Hypocrisy should fit well with whatever religion you conform to.
"So you would be comfortable with the theory is this superior being/IDer could be an alien playing with a "universe making devise"?"
ReplyDeleteNo. I thought aliens (IF they are real) are from this universe. How can something that's from the universe create the universe?
"A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.The correct use of the term requires the elements of obstinacy, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing devotion.
ReplyDeleteBigotry is one of Religions prerequisites.
Hypocrisy is the act of persistently pretending to hold beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually hold. Hypocrisy is thus a kind of lie.
Hypocrisy is another Reilgious prerecquisite."
and Atheism is a religion.
"So you do believe in abiogenesis?
LOL stewie your bigotry and Hypocrisy should fit well with whatever religion you conform to."
He was talking about explosions that happened on a planet where life already existed, so any number of things could have happened. Seeds could have blown over etc. So no, I don't believe in abiogenesis.
Like I said, his links don't work, I can't fully respond to his claims.
Stewie,
ReplyDelete"So you believe in something that is probably impossible to know. Isn't that faith, blind faith? You give religious people grief for believing in people and events that are probably impossible to prove when you are no different. Doesn't that make you a hypocrite?"
Nope. I don't claim it as a fact. I have repeatedly said it is just my opinion. Religious people, such as Dan, claim absolute certainty. Big difference. I hope you can see that. I don't have blind faith so your point and Dan's rant are both moot.
Here is my position. There is no evidence to suggest that there was ever nothing, so I default to the opinion that there has always been something. If someone provides convincing evidence to the contrary, I'll change my opinion. I doubt it could happen though, since anything that causes nothing to become something must have already existed, hence there wasn't nothing to begin with. But I could be wrong.
That is NOT blind faith, its just a reasoned decision. I think you'll find that Dan would never admit that he could be wrong about God. That's blind faith. So I'm not a hypocrite (on this topic at least). I agree that we are all bigots at least some of the time.
"The bottom line is that there is an element of chance. You can't deny it."
Of course I don't deny that. I never did. You said that everything was based on chance and I said that it was both chance and local environmental constraints, but mostly the latter which is non-random.
"Oh, I'm sorry. What were you refering to then, your lotto ticket?"
No, I was referring to how things happen. I wasn't referring to the big bang theory, so for you to ask me to quote from it was just silly. You, on the other hand, explicitly said that that the big bang theory states that everything happened by chance, so my question to you about the big bang theory was apt. Your lotto ticket question was, again, just silly.
No idea why my links aren't working...
Dan,
ReplyDelete"They take it on faith that the secular scientists reports and textbooks are speaking the "gospel" truth and they move forward on those assumptions. They never take things into account as to the accuracy of peer reviews either."
You just wrote a sentence stating that scientists don't take into account the the accuracy of the peer review system, and to back this up you linked to an example of a scientist taking into account the accuracy of the peer review system.
The irony. It burns...
Ouch. 3rd degree to boot! Need cool water!
ReplyDeletesix ULTIMATE reasons not to be a theist
ReplyDelete1)Theists believe that the purpose and meaning to life is to reach a mythical paradise and/or face a series of reincarnations. Your destiny is dictated by something you can’t see or hear and no pictures, reviews or actual testimonies are provided, so you need to take for granted that you will like it. In the event that you don’t qualify for heaven/”improved next life”, you will suffer horrific pain and/or reincarnation into a lesser being. This delusion governs your real/only life to the point of preventing you from harmless activities (like eating pork) or engage in dangerous ones (like blowing up yourself) just to ensure you will keep a winning score.
2)Theists believe that there is an objective moral law dictated by some supernatural entity no one can see or hear, and which has not provided any self-evident proof of its existence. Moreover, there are countless different interpretations of this(these) supernatural being(s), so asserting that objective moral law #1 is better than #2 completely ablates the case for “objectivity”, as both should be equally valid (eg: all exist) or none is (people are delusional). Given that there is no objective/uniquely defined supernatural entity(ies), theists basically pick between moral laws according to what’s most convenient for their particular set of delusions.
3)Theists believe they have free will. Yet, the vast majority of religions also assert that their imaginary deities have omnipresence, omniscience and last, but not least, omnipotence. Therefore, they intrinsically accept their whole lives are staged and that they are simpletons at the mercy of a sadistic almighty puppeteer. Thus, they consider themselves “free” to act in a cosmic theatrical play about humans.
4)To be a theist you cannot believe that you can trust your reasoning. This one is self-explanatory: theists can’t trust that human reasoning can provide logical, evidence-backed explanations for understanding our universe without the need to include magic. In spite of any scientific argument, theists will believe in storms, earthquakes, floods as signs from their deity(ies), not as naturally occurring phenomena.
5)Theists cannot believe in absolute laws of logic, simply because logic is easily bypassed with magic and/or supernatural intervention. Moving on.
6)Theists cannot account for absolute truth, without the existence of deity(ies). Theists believe there is an absolute truth and that learning it is the most important thing for humanity over ending war or poverty, just to justify their delusion. Theists are set on assigning this truth to an invisible force beyond the laws of physics. They will also try to impose the absoluteness of this truth upon everybody else, even those who have no interest/need to learn it.
Speaking of ironic,
ReplyDeleteDid you read about Richard Dawkins writing a new book for teenagers called "what is a rainbow, Really?" that will "look to explode myths and legends about the natural world with science"(1)
RD is the guy who accused, as written in "The God Delusion" (p.218), that Bible-believing Christians as being child abusers.
Has anyone noticed the irony that an atheist, who seeks to indoctrinate young people into a worldview of meaninglessness has accused Christians of Child Abuse?
>>worldview of meaninglessness<<
ReplyDeleteWhat Dan is trying to mean is that atheits cannot believe that there is an objective, absolute meaning to life handed to us by a supernatural being. I won't dignify that suggestion that atheists have no meaning to our lives, with a response.....
other than to say that I'm glad my purpose in life isn't to worship a being that hides from me and allows so much bad shit to happen in the world.
Well, I agree! It's true! Atheists cannot believe that there is an objective, absolute meaning to life handed to us by a supernatural being. Glad we are in agreement!
So I guess you have a proof that there is such a thing as an objective, absolute purpose to life handed to us by a supernatural being? That would sure cause atheists some problems.
To answer your "ULTIMATE reasons not to be a theist" hot list,
ReplyDelete>>Theists believe that the purpose and meaning to life is to reach a mythical paradise and/or face a series of reincarnations.
1) False. The purpose and meaning to life is to find out what the purpose and meaning of life is. God answers that quite simply. Can Atheists? (I am keeping record of all the questions that you have refused to answer thus far.)
>>Theists believe that there is an objective moral law dictated by some supernatural entity no one can see or hear, and which has not provided any self-evident proof of its existence.
2) Wrong. Do you have a conscience? Well then you have an objective moral law dictated by a guiding entity by said conscience and you cannot see or hear it. I pose that God gave us that conscience, do you postulate that it evolved over billions of years? If so, is there any "real" evidence of that?
>>Theists believe they have free will.
3) Wrong again. You are, as stated in the bible, a slave to sin. (Read Romans 6) We all serve a master.
>>To be a theist you cannot believe that you can trust your reasoning.
4) Wrong. It is through God's collective natural and special revelation that I know for certain my senses are reliable and can account for absolute, immaterial, universal laws of logic and reason.
>>Theists cannot believe in absolute laws of logic, simply because logic is easily bypassed with magic and/or supernatural intervention.
5) Wrong. It is through God's collective natural and special revelation that I know for certain my senses are reliable and can account for absolute, immaterial, universal laws of logic and reason. Tell me how do you, an Atheist, account for the laws of logic? (Again, keeping record)
>>Theists cannot account for absolute truth, without the existence of deity.
6) True. Otherwise, how do you account for absolute truth, or laws of logic, within your worldview. Did absolute, immaterial, universal laws of logic and reason exist before man?
1) False. The purpose and meaning to life is to find out what the purpose and meaning of life is. God answers that quite simply. Can Atheists? (I am keeping record of all the questions that you have refused to answer thus far.)
ReplyDelete-----> Why must there be a meaning and purpose to life? I do not really need other meaning/purpose than to responsibly support the development and improvement of my species and my surroundings by using the best evolutionary trait mankind possesses: the brain. That’s acting in the best interest of all life, not only for me to “be saved”. Ultimately, it is up to every single individual to decide what to do with his/her life, but we are obliged to use our cognitive advantages for the best, not for imagining gods or thinking we will get to a better place afterwards. Besides, you fail to acknowledge the spiritual aspirations of other religions (reincarnations), which is sad because you all have so much in common: strong delusion and a need to be treated like children.
2) Wrong. Do you have a conscience? Well then you have an objective moral law dictated by a guiding entity by said conscience and you cannot see or hear it. I pose that God gave us that conscience, do you postulate that it evolved over billions of years? If so, is there any "real" evidence of that?
-----> Yes, “conscience” and “moral” are successful evolutionary traits that were developed over millennia when our hominid ancestors passed desirable social behavior/temper over to the next generations. Eventually structured behavior became what we call “moral code”, we developed a conscience for better interpretation of complex social order and that helped us succeed as a species.
I will give an example: dolphins and whales interact in the best interest of their group. They seem to have a strong sense of protecting and being good to one another. You can call that a desirable social behavior or a moral code that works out well for their niche in a marine environment. We also see that behavior can be inherited: dogs were selectively bred to serve and provide company to humans, eliminating most undesirable behavioral aspects of wolves. And this happened within the last 10,000 years, not billions, since humans did not exist then.
3) Wrong again. You are, as stated in the bible, a slave to sin. (Read Romans 6) We all serve a master.
-----> No sir, you are a slave of your beliefs and your self-imposed master. I have free will because a) there is no being that knows everything, so my life is not staged, I am not a pawn in some bizarre master plan, b) I am free to commit good or bad acts, and live to the consequences imposed by our society.
4) Wrong. It is through God's collective natural and special revelation that I know for certain my senses are reliable and can account for absolute, immaterial, universal laws of logic and reason.
-----> You didn’t read past the first sentence and thus, you have actually confirmed my point: you need god’s magic to explain the universe to yourself. As for myself, I need no “special revelation” to trust my senses or my reason. I am humble and accept that I will not understand every scientific discovery but I am not looking for cheesy god-love-us explanations either. Men will eventually be able to decipher all that exists in the universe. That is trusting OUR reasoning.
[continued]
ReplyDelete5) Wrong. It is through God's collective natural and special revelation that I know for certain my senses are reliable and can account for absolute, immaterial, universal laws of logic and reason. Tell me how do you, an Atheist, account for the laws of logic? (Again, keeping record)
-----> I invite you to read my point again, you have repeated your previous mistake. We know you cannot conceive logic without magic. As for me, I am confident that the cognitive abilities we evolved were crucial in our success as a species. Our capacity to understand and solve logical problems allowed us to hunt larger prey, build tools, discover written language and yes, invent gods for everything we couldn’t find explanation for. When civilizations arose, specialized fields of knowledge were created such as mathematics and philosophy. Since then, science has explained most things in a coherent way, much in spite of religion. If you want to keep fearing thunder it is entirely up to you.
6) True. Otherwise, how do you account for absolute truth, or laws of logic, within your worldview. Did absolute, immaterial, universal laws of logic and reason exist before man?
-----> Why must there be an absolute truth, why does it have to be supernatural and above all, why does it have to be “your truth”? I don’t want to waste my time searching for an absolute truth, even less if it involves moronic rituals and a blind belief in something that just doesn’t seem to exist. Besides, way before “your truth” appeared there were thousands of “other absolute truths”, and many more have been “discovered” since as well. As before, I leave “universalism” to my fellow scientific researchers. If they ever conclude that the explanation for the universe resides in a cosmic jewish zombie, an elephant-headed man with six arms, a cornucopia of dysfunctional greek characters or any other supernatural causes then I will accept it.
Ant,
ReplyDelete>>Why must there be a meaning and purpose to life?
Sad
>> Besides, you fail to acknowledge the spiritual aspirations of other religions
If there is truly a God, then other religions will be false. Why follow false religions? Reincarnation is a very unfair scenario. If someone was a horrible person then they reincarnate into you, for example. What did you do to deserve the hell that you live in? Let's say you were born in Kenya and starved to death at the age of 12. Just an unfair religion concept.
>>Yes, “conscience” and “moral” are successful evolutionary traits that were developed over millennia when our hominid ancestors passed desirable social behavior/temper over to the next generations.
Such bare assertions that you have faith in. Whatever. How about showing some evidence of that bare assertion.
>>dogs were selectively bred to serve and provide company to humans, eliminating most undesirable behavioral aspects of wolves. And this happened within the last 10,000 years, not billions, since humans did not exist then.
What a nice story. I am getting sleepy.
>>so my life is not staged, I am not a pawn in some bizarre master plan.
Wrong. Deny it all you wish. So why get an education? Why strive for good grades? They are meaningless according to your worldview.
From my post: "In the Atheistic worldview someone could rape and murder you with no fear of anything bad happening to them if they are not caught by people. Objective morality just doesn't exist in the atheists worldview. If someone rejects Christianity they will end up, if they're honest and consistent, at the bottom with radical skepticism. All bets are off and all up for grabs. Completely arbitrary moral system; it's going to be pick and choose. People don't live like that though, we go to school and turn in papers on time so you can get the grade. With the Atheistic worldview, school doesn't matter; grades don't matter; education doesn't matter; nothing matters with that worldview."
We all know that just is not the truth though.
>>As for myself, I need no “special revelation” to trust my senses or my reason.
I thought you tried to explain things scientifically. "I don't know" is not an explanation. The proof of God’s existence, is that without Him you couldn’t prove anything. Proof requires logic. One must be able to account for the laws of logic, or the proof ends in an infinite regress of ‘and how do you know that?’ You have not accounted for the laws of logic, and are therefore unable to prove anything.
End of discussion.
>>That is trusting OUR reasoning.
Yes, we all know, all too well, that you place your faith in mankind.
So for the record:
1) You cannot find out what the purpose and meaning of life is or it's a current "I don't know"
2) Your objective moral law came from trial and error? Yea that makes sense?
3) You have free will and choose to follow society as your master. Sure you do.
4) You cannot explain the universe to yourself and you place your faith in mankind.
5) You cannot conceive logic. As an Atheist, you cannot account for the laws of logic.
6) You cannot answer if absolute, immaterial, universal laws of logic and reason exist before man.
Your worldview does not make sense of the real world that we live in. It is merely a bunch of I don't knows and you am waiting (faithfully) for mankind to tell you. Radical skepticism is your dominate position yet you do not live that way.
Whatever. Good luck with that.
1) the meaning of life is in its definition:
ReplyDeletelife is the condition which distinguishes active organisms from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, functional activity and the continual change preceding death. A diverse array of living organisms (life forms) can be found in the biosphere on Earth, and properties common to these organisms—plants, animals, fungi, protists, archaea, and bacteria—are a carbon- and water-based cellular form with complex organization and heritable genetic information. Living organisms undergo metabolism, maintain homeostasis, possess a capacity to grow, respond to stimuli, reproduce and, through natural selection, adapt to their environment in successive generations.
So the meaning of life is to live. and to live is to react to stimulas and reproduce.
2) trail an error YES. Humans are animals there is evidence for morality in animals everywhere, have a look.
3) >>Wrong. Deny it all you wish. So why get an education? Why strive for good grades? They are meaningless according to your worldview.<<
I wanted to learn stuff (education)
I didn't care about grades. They are meaningless to me yes. Does a "A" or "D" add or remove knowlegde? NO.
4) explain the universe? I bit wishy washy question. Do you expect me to explain every cause and effect happining at any and every moment? Unless I do that does that mean God theory is a default setting. (God of Gaps)
5)Laws of logic, Logic is a by-product of understanding cause and effect, all life understands cause and effect. so e.g. understanding 1being 1 therefore logic is used when ask 1+1=? logic tell us the anwser is 2.
6) yes logic (cause and effect) exsisted before homo sapiens.
Did god exist before humans? Where the dinosaurs creationists?
>>In the Atheistic worldview someone could rape and murder you with no fear of anything bad happening to them if they are not caught by people.<<
People do get raped and murderd and the murders don't get caught.
Your definitions of atheitic worldview is a sterotype generilastion of your own misunderstandings. Every living thing has it's own worldview based on there experiences of cause and effect.
Ant,
ReplyDelete>>So the meaning of life is to live. and to live is to react to stimulas and reproduce.
So raping woman is right in line and within that worldview right? You know, for the "stimulus and reproduce" "to live".
>>Humans are animals there is evidence for morality in animals everywhere, have a look.
Like seals that rape other seals to "spread their seed", I am beginning to understand Atheists better.
>>Does a "A" or "D" add or remove [knowledge]?
Well at least we agree on that subject. My kids have no pressure of grades for that same reason.
>> Do you expect me to explain every cause and effect happining at any and every moment?
Avoidance noted, but no maybe you can start with origins. Side note: Do you believe the book "On the Origin of Species" best describes the origin of species within your worldview?
>> Logic is a by-product of understanding cause and effect, all life understands cause and effect.
The principle of causality states that every effect needs a cause. If you added up the universe you would have a pile of effects, you would still need a cause. Even the Big Bang is an effect. It still needs a cause. Plus, you still did not answer my question: How do you account for absolute, immaterial, universal laws of logic and reason?
Look, God exists outside space-time therefore space-time is contingent on God. God is not, on the other hand, contingent on space-time. Space-time cannot exist without God but God could exist without space-time, thus the term, not contingent.
When (X) is said to cause (Y) this means that (Y) is contingent on (X) and that (X) preceded (Y). A characteristic of (Y) is that it is that which is caused by (X) so the existence of (Y) implies the existence of (X). This, however, does not mean that (Y) caused (X). (Causality)
Now a good question to the deterministic worldview, such as atheists, is who/what made the universe, who made the big bang, bang,...?
If it is a chain of events, following one after another according to the law of cause and effect, then what started the process? Otherwise it is an infinite regress of 'what caused that?' So logically how did, do you suppose, the universe get here? Does a deterministic worldview give a realistic conclusion to that question?
Christianity sure does.
>>Did god exist before humans?
See explanation above of causality
>>Where the dinosaurs creationists?
Animals that are self aware? This conversation reminds me of this post. Read it for your answer.
It's ironic how you claim that "There is nothing we could do to destroy this planet at all!!" and then later claim that "Not to mention that our destructive behavior will probably be our own demise anyway." That's exactly the point. Are we going to obliterate the planet so that no Earth exists? No, but can we destroy it such that it makes our own existence possible? Absolutely. To say that we don't affect the environment is ridiculous and obviously contradictory. You can see our affect on nearly everything, from carbon emissions to deforestation of the rain forest, to the acceleration of specie extinction especially with the larger animals, as well as the introduction of exotic species that destroy the native ones.
ReplyDelete