Does a British[?] accent make a better narrator then an New Zealand one? Time will tell. I do love the delivery because its explained well. Please watch.
Also, CS Lewis drives it home here:
bit.ly/savedin11
January 11, 2011
How to...The Bible Explained In 11 Minutes
Does a British[?] accent make a better narrator then an New Zealand one? Time will tell. I do love the delivery because its explained well. Please watch.
Also, CS Lewis drives it home here:
bit.ly/savedin11
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I didn't ask Jesus to die for me, and as such, I owe him nothing.
ReplyDeleteWhat: And?
DeleteJesus died for you...
ReplyDeleteIn the Fictional Novel Collection called The Holy Bible
In this novel the character Jesus is killed by some nut job theists. It was hardly suicide.
Ant: Proof, please.
DeleteWem,
ReplyDelete>>I didn't ask Jesus to die for me, and as such, I owe him nothing.
You're right, but He does not owe you anything either. You will go to Hell, all on your own and because of your own sins.
The gift, that you now admittedly reject, is not being forced on you. What a kind thing for God to do, huh?
send people to hell..yes how kind.
ReplyDeleteThere is no mention above of God SENDING WEM to hell. Dan said you will go to hell all on your own. The rejection of the escape from hell that God has provided can hardly be turned around to indicate that it's God's choice to send someone to hell in the first place.
DeleteGod does not send people to hell for denying what they're not certain about, but for sin against the God that they do know. Hell's gates will be locked from the inside. To blame God is misdirecting. You need a mirror to properly place the blame.
DeleteAnt,
ReplyDelete>>Jesus died for you...
In the Fictional Novel Collection called The Holy Bible
The evidence points to the Bible being a historical narrative. I thought you liked evidence? Care to back up that bare assertion that the Bible is a fictional novel?
Let me guess your answer. *crickets?
Your worldview is inconsistent if you believe that evidence is not needed for your own claims, but is for others.
Plus, not believing the evidence of the Bible for God's existence, because you do not believe God exists, is question begging.
You're a real mess here.
Your thoughts... they burn.
DeletePlease cite this 'evidence'. Jesus is not even written about until 50 years after his death. That's some shaky testimony. Not to mention the fact that testimony is an unreliable form of evidence that is not generally accepted.
His assertions need no backing as he is saying you have no evidence for the Bible being true. He is not even making a claim. You are. In fact I have not even been presented evidence that Jesus existed at all. Not exactly crickets huh? Perhaps let someone answer rather than making assumptions.
The world view is therefore maintained as evidence has not been given and verified.
That's not 'begging the question'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
It is generally accepted that if the Bible were true then God would exist as the Bible says He does. The Bible is full of contradictions and has opposing theologies. The Bible must be proven true to take its claims.
This is not to say that if the Bible is not true that God does not exist. You simply have to provide evidence for the Bible or evidence for God. The ball is in the theist court until that is done.
AJ,
ReplyDelete>>send people to hell..yes how kind.
Yes it is kind. For the rest of us.
Imagine a world where there is no punishment for drunk drivers rapists, and axe murderers.
Without hell there is no justice. So sending people to hell is JUST.
Except if you ask Jesus to forgive you and repent. Then even the rapist can go to heaven am I wrong? The video talks about how forgiveness is wrong but then talks about 'exchanging Jesus's perfect record for your own' will allow you to go to heaven anyways.
DeleteNot to mention the Bible claims you will go to hell for the most arbitrary actions such as working on Sunday.
Is it moral to allow someone (note a didn't even say send, but rather allow) to go to hell for telling a single lie and not asking for forgiveness from one of a hundred thousand claimed Gods/deities? A God that is not even heard about by the millions (billion?) people in Africa? And how are we supposed to even know which church or god is the true one? None have any solid (preferably evidence based) reason to believe in them.
All Christians go to Heaven. We're not perfect, just forgiven. Romans 8:1 makes it perfectly clear, "Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus". So all sin is forgiven in Christ. All. You will meet God under one of two covenants. Either Adam our the second Adam, Jesus. The one you're born in, or born again in. It's really that simple. You're not sent to hell for things you didn't know about, but for the sin against the God you KNOW exists. (Romans 1:18-23)
DeleteGod revealed Himself to ALL mankind, so we're without excuse. There is only one Creator of all, God, and we all know Him. Do you even concede that an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent being could reveal Himself to us, such we are certain of it?
How are you certain your reasoning is valid without God, or being viciously circular?
When Jesus died, he died to save man from the condition of sin and not limiting to the act of sin. When you look across hundreds of generations (i.e referring to God's view) you will see Sin as a condition. And only he could do something about it.
Delete>>Care to back up that bare assertion that the Bible is a fictional novel?<<
ReplyDeleteYour right Dan sorry... the Book the Holy Bible is actually a
Non-realistic fiction novel.
Non-realistic fiction is that in which the story's events could not happen in real life, because they are supernatural, or involve an alternate form of history of mankind other than that recorded, or need impossible technology. A good deal of such novels are present, although they tend to address a younger audience.
I make this claim based on my expertise, and skills acquired by through experience of the real world. In all my experiences I have never came across anything supernatuaral.
Yes this could be a argument of ignorence, however if I do experience somthing supernatual, my claim may change.
>>Your worldview is inconsistent if you believe that evidence is not needed for your own claims, but is for others.<<
... and what is Dans claim of evidence of supernatual...
wait for it...
REVELATION
Revelation to me seems to be a combo of immagination coupled with extreme ego.
Oh and what sort of God would make it a crime not to believe in it?
This God character in the Non-realistic fiction novel The Holy Bible sounds alot like the character of Pol Pot
Dan said:"Imagine a world where there is no punishment for drunk drivers rapists, and axe murderers.
ReplyDeleteWithout hell there is no justice. So sending people to hell is JUST."
axe murderers, rapists go to prison for many years, many times for life. drunk drivers go to rehab.
atheists who build hospitals to save the lives of children with leukemia GO TO HELL FOR ETERNITY.
this is just in Dan's worldview.
Dan +†+ said...
ReplyDeleteAJ,
>>send people to hell..yes how kind.
Yes it is kind. For the rest of us.
Eternal torment for the dead is some kind of kindness to the living? How monstrous, but also unsurprising given you worship a monster.
Imagine a world where there is no punishment for drunk drivers rapists, and axe murderers.
Such a place would be called Heaven if those drunk drivers, rapists and axe murderers have put their faith in Jesus Christ before they die.
Without hell there is no justice.
What drivel. The concept of Hell is just a tool used to attempt to strike fear into those who do not believe as you do.
So sending people to hell is JUST.
The concept of sending people to Hell does nothing more than satiate your petty desire for retribution. In no way, shape or form can the concept of infinite punishment for a finite crime be reconciled as 'justice'.
Besides, Christian theology apparently dictates that folks who have not "heard the good news" are denied access to heaven just because they were born in the wrong part of the world & were never visited by any missionaries!
DeleteAnd, if you listen to any christian denomination, you'll hear that the ONLY way to heaven is conversion to that church's dictates.
The only conclusion any thinking person CAN arrive at is that christianity & other religions are all codswollop.
Ant,
ReplyDelete>>In all my experiences I have never came across anything supernatuaral.
So that means that it doesn't exist? With that logic, you have just proven that I am immortal. You see John, every day that I’ve been alive, I haven’t died, therefore I will never die. You are begging the question.
Plus, its funny (read sad) that you resist God and scream for God to reveal Himself to you? That arrogance will get you no where. It doesn't work like that, at all. You must approach Him with a broken and contrite heart (Psalm 34:18,Psalm 51:17) and fear Him (Proverbs 9:10) because it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God, (Hebrews 10:31) when opposing Him.
>>Revelation to me seems to be a combo of [imagination] coupled with extreme ego.
But you concede that you could be wrong.
>>Oh and what sort of God would make it a crime not to believe in it?
Your "crimes" are breaking His Laws.
Freddies Dead,
ReplyDelete>>In no way, shape or form can the concept of infinite punishment for a finite crime be reconciled as 'justice'.
When you lie to someone(sin by breaking the 9th Commandment) you are not lying to that person but to God Himself. Lying is a spiritual event. It's not merely a physical action. Lying is an offense against God. When His creations lie, He is ashamed of His creation and simply separates Himself.
Remember this one:
If I lie to a child, I'll get away with it.
If I lie to my wife, I'll be sleeping on the couch.
If I lie to a police officer, I'm obstructing justice and I'll go to jail.
If I lie to a judge, it's called perjury, and I'll go to prison.
If I lie to the government, it can be called treason, and the punishment might be death.
So how much more egregious is a lie to God?
A lie to an eternal God, deserves eternal punishment.
How would you feel if someone murdered your child? Jesus said if you hate someone you murder someone in your heart. It pains God to see you treat His Creation with contempt and malice, and you will be punished for it. You don't have to believe me though. You can trust your logic, that you concede that you cannot be certain of.
What if your wrong? Have you thought it all the way through? I hope so.
Hey kids.
ReplyDeleteThought this is interesting:
"Thanks in part to this bunker mentality, American Christianity has become what [James] Hunter calls a “weak culture” — one that mobilizes but doesn’t convert, alienates rather than seduces, and looks backward toward a lost past instead of forward to a vibrant future."
This is particularly true in the United States, where conservative Christians have mistakenly aligned themselves with right-wing and far-right ideology, excluding people of different sexual orientation, physical appearance, customs, political stances and social circles. It now is synonymous with money-grubbing televangelists, pedophiles, born-again drug users, militant nut jobs, and terrible country music. The once dominant religion of Jesus is falling apart not thanks to atheism but to Christianity. Which is awesome because I'm an atheist and they're doing all the work for me! Thanks guys!
Cameron,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the hasty generalization fallacious red herring.
That quote certainly was not "wishful thinking" at all.
These sentiments towards us is to be expected because, to those to whom the gospel message is uncomfortable, it is received with resistance. When Jesus preached in His hometown at first they were amazed at His Words, but by the end of His sermon they tried to throw Him off a cliff (Luke 4: 14-30)
The truth sometimes moves people to want to throw us off cliffs, but if we withhold the truth due to the reaction we might receive, then we are not teaching like our Lord.
In fact, many people will match the prophetic writing in the Bible. (2 Timothy 3:1-9) Many are even on your list. And yes, some will be professing Christians.
So what? How will that help you, personally, on that very great day of Judgment?
Ant,
ReplyDeleteBecause of our conversation, I thought of some verses for you.
James 1:5-7
Carry on.
So that means that it doesn't exist? With that logic, you have just proven that I am immortal.
ReplyDeleteNo Dan, this means you will continue to believe you are alive untill your dead.
Just like a virgin knows there a virgin untill there not.
Found another good site:
ReplyDeleteAtheistsNever.com
Dan +†+ said...
ReplyDeleteFreddies Dead,
>>In no way, shape or form can the concept of infinite punishment for a finite crime be reconciled as 'justice'.
When you lie to someone(sin by breaking the 9th Commandment) you are not lying to that person but to God Himself.
I am lying to that person, otherwise I'm not lying at all and God is irrelevant.
Lying is a spiritual event. It's not merely a physical action. Lying is an offense against God.
Yet, according to you, not only did He make us, He did so a) capable of lying and b) knowing full well we would lie. How can He be offended when what He made goes and does exactly what He knew it would do when He made it? Lol, that would be like me getting all upset when a program I had written popped up a messagebox suggesting I should 'go forth and multiply' even though I had specifically coded the program to display said messagebox to me.
When His creations lie, He is ashamed of His creation and simply separates Himself.
If He doesn't want to be ashamed why does He create things that He knows full well will cause Him shame? Why does He then compound the error by insisting on punishing them eternally for doing exactly as He made them when He could simply change them so they don't cause Him shame?
Remember this one:
If I lie to a child, I'll get away with it.
If I lie to my wife, I'll be sleeping on the couch.
If I lie to a police officer, I'm obstructing justice and I'll go to jail.
If I lie to a judge, it's called perjury, and I'll go to prison.
If I lie to the government, it can be called treason, and the punishment might be death.
So it's not the lie itself, or the harm it causes, but who the lie is told to that counts? Firstly, thank you for demonstrating your relative morality. Secondly, you said earlier that I wasn't actually lying to any of these people so it doesn't really matter who I lie to or what the earthly consequences are and the example is shown to be irrelevant.
So how much more egregious is a lie to God?
None. Firstly, God knows it's going to happen, it is, after all, how He made us. There can be no offence when your creation does exactly as you knew it would when you made it. Secondly, the thing that makes lying wrong is the harm that it causes, I could no more harm an omnimax deity than I could walk to Jupiter and back.
A lie to an eternal God, deserves eternal punishment.
Lol, you keep saying it but haven't once shown it to be true.
cont'd...
cont'd...
ReplyDeleteDan +†+ said...
How would you feel if someone murdered your child?
I see we've started sliding down the slippery slope of your argument but, what the Hell, let's see how far it goes. I expect I would be angry, upset, hurt, vengeful etc... - of course all that would end when I die i.e. the feelings are finite, like the crime itself.
Jesus said if you hate someone you murder someone in your heart.
So hating someone is exactly the same as stabbing/strangling/shooting them now? Just without the whole blood/choking/bullet wounds bit? oh and without anyone dying of course... Seems they are not the same at all to me.
It pains God to see you treat His Creation with contempt and malice, and you will be punished for it.
It pains God that we do exactly as He made us to do? He then feels the need to torture us for all eternity for doing exactly as He knew we'd do when He made us? How appallingly ridiculous.
You don't have to believe me though. You can trust your logic, that you concede that you cannot be certain of.
Lol, In this context I'm certain enough that it's right, HINT: 'systemic' ;-) But talking of certainty, have you figured out another way for you to be certain that doesn't require you to be omniscient yourself? Or are you sticking with the infinite regress of revelations you need to claim your revelation about God was a) real b) actually from who it purported to be and c) true?
What if your[sic] wrong?
Pascal's wager Dan? Really? What if you are the one who has it all wrong? What if you've backed the wrong God? What if the real one really, really hates people who pick the wrong one? What if he doesn't mind those who choose to believe that none of the proposed Gods could be the real one?
Have you thought it all the way through? I hope so.
I might have done, then again there's a good chance I've missed stuff and I'm certainly not claiming to know for sure but it's all pretty irrelevant though as:
according to my worldview it won't matter, when I'm dead that's it
and
according to your worldview there's nothing I can do to influence God's decision anyway I'll either come to believe or I won't according to His will.
Freddies Dead,
ReplyDelete>>How can He be offended when what He made goes and does exactly what He knew it would do when He made it?
So its your point that lying is a created thing? So you are going to stand on, truth is the absence of lying? Wow, I will get to that later.
>>that would be like me getting all upset when a program I had written popped up a messagebox suggesting I should 'go forth and multiply' even though I had specifically coded the program to display said messagebox to me.
That...does...not...compute. You have it backwards, again, in your illogical thinking. I think you need assistance in constructing a logical argument. Its hard to relate this to your specific scenario, because you left out so many factors. Free will, being one of them.
If T, then not L
If L, then not T
I am sure you can see that T equates to truth, L is lying, of course. Go from there.
>>If He doesn't want to be ashamed why does He create things that He knows full well will cause Him shame?
Because forced love is not love. Do you force your "partner" to love you?
Married if love
If no love, then no marriage.
If force, then no love.
Or if you reside in this state, you must add another factor:
If California, then no Freddies Dead marriage (gay joke)
The point is that God wants, ultimately, love from you. He gave you free will to choose to love Him. You don't have to though.
Oh, and don't think for one second that I didn't notice that you're respecting God enough to capitalize the H's in "He". Its a good start, even if subconsciously. I am hopeful for you buddy. :7) I am on your side, and rooting for ya.
>>So hating someone is exactly the same as stabbing/strangling/shooting them now?
Yes, spiritually. Hatred kills the spirit of a person, and societies. You know this. Plus, it even makes sense to someone, like you, that denies there is a spiritual plane. Denial doth not equate to truth.
You now sound like the teacher in this video. We have been down this path before. Ignore the evidence if you wish.
>>But talking of certainty, have you figured out another way for you to be certain that doesn't require you to be omniscient yourself?
Great so you understand then? So, we agree that in order to know something for certain, requires omniscience. GREAT!! Now we are getting somewhere. That, of course, leads us right to you conceding that an omniscient, omnipotent being could reveal things to us, such that we can be certain of them. There is no other way to know something otherwise. So, in turn, you now understand and agree, God exists!! Otherwise, you would have no other avenue to certainty. Whew, its been years but finally we have some honesty from an Atheist. I will have to post about this great news. Your journey to wisdom can now begin. I am happy for you, buddy.
Freddies Dead cont'd,
ReplyDelete>>What if you are the one who has it all wrong? What if you've backed the wrong God? What if the real one really, really hates people who pick the wrong one? What if he doesn't mind those who choose to believe that none of the proposed Gods could be the real one?
So how do you think you would find out the answers to these questions?
Now, if something imagined, its truth? Can you be wrong? Before you answer remember what you said "then again there's a good chance I've missed stuff and I'm certainly not claiming to know for sure"
Obvious you do, because then you follow it up with,
>>"but it's all pretty irrelevant though as..."
>>according to my worldview it won't matter, when I'm dead that's it
So now your postmodern worldview is catching up to you. Just because you believe it to be reality, does not mean that it is. You're worse then any other religion, or cult, out there. You believe truth is subjective.
>>according to your worldview there's nothing I can do to influence God's decision anyway I'll either come to believe or I won't according to His will.
Do you know this? If so, how can you know something? To address it though, you're wrong! You have no clue what the truth is. Remember that Moses pleading with God to save his people? (Exodus 32:11-15) God can, and will, change your path. God's will is for you to be with Him!! He already wants you to change your ways of denying Him. He loves you!!!!! You reject Him. We both know this is the truth.
God has revealed your resistance and rejection. We can both be certain of it.
Prove us all wrong. Approach God with a broken and contrite heart someday, then you will witness the metamorphose. You will have, in your own free will, honored God's will.
if u loved something, would you create a place to send it for it to be eternally tortured?
ReplyDeleteHell was created for Lucifer and the angels that rebelled against God. Hell was not created for people, which is why God made a way for sinful people (all of us) to be counted as holy. He did so by providing the gift of salvation through Jesus, who knew no sin, who died and payed the price for our sin so that it would not be required of us.
DeleteHell's gates will be locked from the inside, as CS Lewis pointed out.
DeleteBecause you have railed against God your entire life and not have God's will be done, i.e. repent and placing your entire trust in Jesus Christ for your Salvation with your heart, mind, and soul, then God will have your will be done and that is separation from Him. We call it despair.
"We call it despair"
DeleteI call your belief in such childish nonsense PATHETIC.
>>I call your belief in such childish nonsense PATHETIC.
DeleteAppeal to ridicule FTW? What weight or "worth" does that hold to anyone? Barely asserted claims, or even a mere appeal to ridicule are, in fact, worthless.
So, it is pretty ironic that the very things you're complaining about, pathetic childish nonsense, is the very thing that YOU are spewing.
AJ,
ReplyDelete>>if u loved something, would you create a place to send it for it to be eternally tortured?
If that were to happen it would have to commit some very horrible crimes. A desire for justice is still love.
If you son brutishly raped hundreds babies for years, would you want justice?
The follow up would be, is perfect love coddling bad behavior?
I would not sentence anyone to infinite punishment for finite crimes.
ReplyDeleteso apparently denying the holy spirit is much worse than raping a billion babies...so Dan, if you had to choose, between raping a billion babies, which you could be forgiven for by god, or, blaspheming the holy spirit, which you could not be forgiven for by god, which one would you choose?... ; ]
ReplyDeleteThe God of Dan's worldview actually wants those babies dead.
ReplyDeletehttp://debunkingatheists.blogspot.com/2010/11/genocide-or-capitol-punishment.html
nice Antzilla
ReplyDeleteDan +†+ said...
ReplyDeleteFreddies Dead,
>>How can He be offended when what He made goes and does exactly what He knew it would do when He made it?
So its your point that lying is a created thing?
Isn't it your point that everything is created by God?
So you are going to stand on, truth is the absence of lying? Wow, I will get to that later.
Wow indeed, I have no idea how you got from what I said to that but it should be fun watching you attack the strawman.
>>that would be like me getting all upset when a program I had written popped up a messagebox suggesting I should 'go forth and multiply' even though I had specifically coded the program to display said messagebox to me.
That...does...not...compute.
It's very simple - God creates people (I create programs), He not only makes them capable of lying but with the knowledge that they will lie (I put in the messagebox and code it in such a way that it will pop up). He then gets upset when they do exactly as they were Created (I get offended by my own prog... oh wait, I made it do that, why would I be offended by that? That's right, I'm not).
You have it backwards, again, in your illogical thinking.
I note you fail to back this up...
I think you need assistance in constructing a logical argument.
If I do I'd be sure to ask someone who understands the process i.e. not you...
Its hard to relate this to your specific scenario, because you left out so many factors.
Lol, trying to make it more complex isn't going to help you Dan, in your worldview God makes people and He makes them such that they can and will lie, he then gets pissed off and punishes them for it - it's bizarre...
Free will, being one of them.
Can you possibly do something that God does not know you will do? Your free will is an illusion Dan...
If T, then not L
If L, then not T
I am sure you can see that T equates to truth, L is lying, of course. Go from there.
Go from there to where? Where God punishes His creations for doing exactly as they were created to do?
>>If He doesn't want to be ashamed why does He create things that He knows full well will cause Him shame?
Because forced love is not love. Do you force your "partner" to love you?
What's this 'forced love' crap? Your God could have made humans incapable of lying and unaware that lying was even possible - how does making you unable to condemn yourself to Hell through lying equate to 'forced love'?
Married if love
If no love, then no marriage.
If force, then no love.
Or if you reside in this state, you must add another factor:
If California, then no Freddies Dead marriage (gay joke)
Pointless bigotry doesn't help your argument.
The point is that God wants, ultimately, love from you. He gave you free will to choose to love Him. You don't have to though.
He wants you to love Him but he'll send you to Hell if you don't ... I guess this is what you meant by 'forced love' huh?
Oh, and don't think for one second that I didn't notice that you're respecting God enough to capitalize the H's in "He". Its a good start, even if subconsciously. I am hopeful for you buddy. :7) I am on your side, and rooting for ya.
You are mistaking my courtesy to you for respect for your absurd God concept Dan.
cont'd...
cont'd...
ReplyDelete>>So hating someone is exactly the same as stabbing/strangling/shooting them now?
Yes, spiritually. Hatred kills the spirit of a person, and societies. You know this. Plus, it even makes sense to someone, like you, that denies there is a spiritual plane.
It makes no sense to me at all. Thinking thoughts about someone (whether they're good or bad) has no effect. It's only when you put those thoughts into action that harm can be done.
Denial doth not equate to truth.
Quite. Equally, wishing doesn't make it so either.
You now sound like the teacher in this video. We have been down this path before. Ignore the evidence if you wish.
Evidence of what? Do you have something that supports your claim that thinking bad thoughts can hurt another's spirit? Or are you just hoping I'll believe this woo on your say so?
>>But talking of certainty, have you figured out another way for you to be certain that doesn't require you to be omniscient yourself?
Great so you understand then? So, we agree that in order to know something for certain, requires omniscience. GREAT!! Now we are getting somewhere. That, of course, leads us right to you conceding that an omniscient, omnipotent being could reveal things to us, such that we can be certain of them.
I understand it, you, not so much it seems. You already state it requires omniscience but then try and claim your revelation is akin to having omniscience. It's not. Yes, I've conceded that an omnimax deity could make you certain but my concession required that deity to grant you omniscience, anything less leaves you relying on an infinite regress of 'revelations'.
There is no other way to know something otherwise.
Sneaky, I think it's possible to 'know' plenty of things with a degree of certainty sufficient to carry on with your everyday life. It's your claim of absolute certainty that I have a problem with especially as you consistently fail to demonstrate that you have it. Hint: it requires omniscience ;-)
So, in turn, you now understand and agree, God exists!!
I understand you're trying semantics to sneak your God in but no, I still don't agree He exists.
Otherwise, you would have no other avenue to certainty.
You mean 'absolute' certainty here of course and no, I admit I can't think of a way to have certainty without omniscience. However, that's not the same as accepting that an omniscient entity exists and has revealed anything to you Dan. How do you know that the 'revelation' is from the God you believe in and isn't the product of delusion or even a trick. Let me guess, revelation right? Infinite regress rules for Dan.
Whew, its been years but finally we have some honesty from an Atheist. I will have to post about this great news. Your journey to wisdom can now begin. I am happy for you, buddy.
What's with the pathetic dig? I have been nothing but honest during my time posting here. You may disagree with my worldview but accusing me of being dishonest in my profession of it is churlish and petty.
cont'd...
cont'd...
ReplyDelete>>What if you are the one who has it all wrong? What if you've backed the wrong God? What if the real one really, really hates people who pick the wrong one? What if he doesn't mind those who choose to believe that none of the proposed Gods could be the real one?
So how do you think you would find out the answers to these questions?
What makes you think there is a way to find the answers short of dying? And, as I said, if I'm right, then post death there's nothing, so there's no way to know if I was right, and if I'm wrong I'll be too busy enduring eternal torment to know which of the thousands of proposed Gods decided I deserve it. There's always that chance that God doesn't mind atheists and we'll get to spend eternity knowing we were both wrong ;-)
Now, if something imagined, its truth? Can you be wrong? Before you answer remember what you said "then again there's a good chance I've missed stuff and I'm certainly not claiming to know for sure"
Obvious you do, because then you follow it up with,
>>"but it's all pretty irrelevant though as..."
>>according to my worldview it won't matter, when I'm dead that's it
So now your postmodern worldview is catching up to you.
Postmodern? There's nothing postmodern in the lack of belief in an afterlife.
Just because you believe it to be reality, does not mean that it is.
Right back atcha.
You're worse then any other religion, or cult, out there. You believe truth is subjective.
I believe truth is most likely sytemic Dan. I also believe that what I believe does not affact the outcome in any way. In that respect Dan I believe truth to be objective. In your worldview though, truth is whatever your God says it is.
>>according to your worldview there's nothing I can do to influence God's decision anyway I'll either come to believe or I won't according to His will.
Do you know this? If so, how can you know something?
And back with the presupp nonsense. Why not just admit that I can't do anything that contradicts the will of God in your worldview?
To address it though, you're wrong! You have no clue what the truth is. Remember that Moses pleading with God to save his people? (Exodus 32:11-15) God can, and will, change your path. God's will is for you to be with Him!! He already wants you to change your ways of denying Him. He loves you!!!!!
Thanks for making my point that according to your worlview it's down to God and there's nothing I can do about it.
You reject Him. We both know this is the truth.
I reject your idea of God, it's unsupported, contradictory and, in many places, abhorrent.
God has revealed your resistance and rejection. We can both be certain of it.
So you're omniscient now then? If not how can you be certain of anything? That infinite regress of revelations again? lol.
Prove us all wrong. Approach God with a broken and contrite heart someday, then you will witness the metamorphose. You will have, in your own free will, honored God's will.
Which conveniently ignores that God already kows whether this will happen or not and that there's nothing I can do to change it. Free will? Psshaw. Not in your worldview Dan.
I really dislike how hostile the repeat commenters in this blog are toward each other. It's degraded from having an intelligent, respectful discussion to trying to make everyone else look like an idiot.
ReplyDeleteEternal damnation is not justified ever. God is unjust.
ReplyDelete>>God is unjust.
DeleteBefore we address that you have made some assumptions of your point that you will have to defend before the claim is even valid. Like Razi Zacharias said that I highlight in one of my posts, you have just invoked a moral law, or standard in raising that claim that your worldview cannot account for. That is your presupposition of the claim, is it not? Otherwise, the claim self destructs.
Bullshit, Dan...if anything, I'd say that it's the inconsistent moral system that would have trouble to account for "moral law". That would be yours.
ReplyDeleteYou people see no problem with god having babies killed yet when "man" does it, those same people go nuts about it, yet they call themselves "pro-life"?
Bull-fucking-shit.
You want an "accounting" for a moral law Dan? Humans are social animals, as many others in the primate family are. Without rules and codes of conduct established, and hashed and re-hashed over time as circumstances dictate, we'd be extinct right now.
It's a survival mechanism that we developed to a greater extent than other primates.
I know you'll reject that and keep on with the theistic fiction that "our worldview can't account" for morality, but at least it's on the record here.
I have a question. Even if I feel sorry and am truly regret for my doings, and live the rest of my life doing good, if I am a atheist than I will go the suffer for ever after my death, with no chance of redemption?
ReplyDeleteTry that in court. "Judge, I am sorry for raping and murdering that person, I will try to do good for the rest of my life. Can I go free now?"
DeleteWhat do you think the judge would say?
"You should be sorry, you should do good for the rest of your life anyway. Now, I sentence you to prison. Take him away."
Uh, isn't that how xianity works? Remember what jesus was supposed to said to the prostitute once after he did that famous "throw the first stone line"...something like "go and sin no more".
DeleteSure, you'll say that christ "paid for our sins" but there are two problems:
-even if true, he only had a bad weekend for our sins...he was up and back in heaven a few days later.
You wouldn't say that a rich guy paying five dollars to cover the fine of someone who owes a lot more than that, to be fully paid off do you? No real life court would do that.
-no court of law would allow substitutionary atonement. They would not give the sentence to someone else other than the one who the court decided did the deed.
So beating a torturing an innocent man is not "enough" for you Reynold? You want more, to make it more worth the salvation? Silly really. I will remain grateful. You?
DeleteYou're not getting it, are you? How long did this supposed "innocent" man suffer? Just one afternoon plus being supposedly dead for 3 days.
DeleteNow, how long do any of us, regardless of age spend, not just being dead, but being tortured in hell?
Here's a hint: It's a lot longer than 3 lousy days, and even more longer than one afternoon of supposed "torture".
Re-read my last post to try to get the point and do so as a human, not a thrall this time, eh?
>>Now, how long do any of us, regardless of age spend, not just being dead, but being tortured in hell?
DeleteI don't know. Do you? Or are you assuming again?
>>Here's a hint: It's a lot longer than 3 lousy days, and even more longer than one afternoon of supposed "torture".
Are you absolutely certain of that? If so, how are you absolutely certain?
"Finally, it is objected that the ultimate loss of a single soul means the defeat of omnipotence. And so it does. In creating beings with free will, omnipotence from the outset submits to the possibility of such defeat. What you call defeat, I call miracle: for to make things which are not Itself, and thus to become, in a sense, capable of being resisted by its own handiwork, is the most astonishing and unimaginable of all the feats we attribute to the Deity. I willingly believe that the damned are, in one sense, successful, rebels to the end; that the doors of hell are locked on the inside." ~CS Lewis
Dan quoting me: Now, how long do any of us, regardless of age spend, not just being dead, but being tortured in hell?
ReplyDeleteI don't know. Do you? Or are you assuming again?Dan, you idiot...it's from your own bible.
Matthew 25:41
Revelation 20:15
Mark 9:46
Isaiah 66:22-24
Revelation 20:10-15
It's odd how the bible can be so explicit about something yet you profess to not know about this. Yet you insist in pushing bible bullshit into areas like science and whatnot (creationism, or biblical belief at all).
Are you saying that those in hell only suffer a little bit before they are extinguished?
Here's a hint: It's a lot longer than 3 lousy days, and even more longer than one afternoon of supposed "torture".
Are you absolutely certain of that? If so, how are you absolutely certain?
Dan, you idiot...it's from your own bible. (I know, I'm copying, but what else can I do?)
What Lewis said is irrelevant. Find me a bible verse that implies that hell is "locked on the inside". If that were the case, what's to stop those from inside from getting out when they've been fed up with it?
Since there is no 'theories' or 'belief' regarding Atheism, there is nothing to 'debunk'. Atheists make no claim. Simply non-belief. Correct me if I'm wrong, the burden of proof lies on the ones making the claim. The difference between any atheist and any believer is that an atheist would be able to reconcile with facts and change an opinion if evidence ever were to be presented. But don't hold your breath... (Also funny that he should use the periodic table, which is connected to science, which is anathema to believers.)
ReplyDelete>>Since there is no 'theories' or 'belief' regarding Atheism, there is nothing to 'debunk'. Atheists make no claim. Simply non-belief.
DeleteThere is certainly nothing "lacking" in your beliefs. (Lack of Beliefs?
Even a non believing friend of mine said, "In actual common usage, atheism means the specific belief that there is no god. Simply put, some people want to broaden the category of atheism so as to make the category to which people want to refer in such discussions too cumbersome to specify. If, for some reason, one wishes to identify himself only as not a theist, the term non-theist will suffice. But the term is not often used, as the category is useless to discussion. And that is why I regard the attempt to broaden "atheist" to be synonymous with "non-theist" to be dishonest. "
>>Also funny that he should use the periodic table, which is connected to science, which is anathema to believers.
No, what is funny, read sad, is that you use a hasty generalization fallacy for your argument -FTW!
Sir Issac Newton (Father of Universal Gravitation). Louis Pasteur (Father of modern microbiology). George Washington Carver (American scientist, botanist, educator, and inventor). Charles Bell (Premier Anatomist and Surgeon).Gregor Johann Mendel (Father of modern genetics). James Clerk Maxwell (Father of Electromagnetic Theory). Werner Arber (Nobel Laureate in biology). William Kirby (Father of Entomology), Francis Collins (Director of the National Institutes of Health and lead in Human Genome Project (HGP))
All Christian. Your arguments are completely lacking. Maybe that is what Atheists mean with the proclaimed "lacking" belief. :)
God revealed that everyone knows He exists, He created the world. He revealed that His existence is necessary for knowledge, ethics, aesthetics, etc. So you're making an implicitly positive claim by saying you do not believe He exists, and therefore you own a burden of proof. At the very least, you owe an burden of rebuttal. (bit.ly/BoProof
Ah... eternal torture for telling your mother that she's not getting fat. Sounds perfectly just to me.
ReplyDelete...Maybe hell could have just been like a time-out or something? Sitting in a corner filled with shame for a little while before being allowed to eat lunch? Maybe the kids who have sucked up to the teacher get extra recess, and maybe the shittier kids have to write lines during story time.
A judge sentencing a person to death for a lie is far more unjust than letting a murderer wander free. Feel free to extend the analogy.
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DeleteThis is like an incredibly disturbing advert.
ReplyDeleteIt disgusts me.
Also, the video sort of contradicts itself. The whole 'you'd be angry if the murderer got away with it because the judge loves him' is the same as anyone 'accepting Jesus' and then not going to hell for it - it becomes 'wouldn't you be angry if the murderer got away with it because the murderer loves the judge?'
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?” (1 Corinthians 1: 18-20)
Delete“The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2: 14)
So if I'm praying for redemption then I'm taking what isn't mine, so I'm a sinner. So... Redemption starts with sinning now. Ooookayy.... Also, doesn't that make jesus a sinner because he's taking all of our records. Also if records are souls then jesus is stealing our souls? And we're replacing our souls with his and thereby becoming the same person OH GOD ITS A MIND CONTROL PLOT. Regardless, jesus is also taking what isn't his millions of times. So he's a rampant thief and assuming he hasn't prayed to... Himself? which seems a bit contrived, he should go to hell
ReplyDeleteSure, you're praying for redemption. A broken and contrite heart God will not deny (Psalm 51:17) But, it's still a gift silly. You cannot take it, nor demand it. This is made clear in Matthew 7:21-23
DeleteSo your point is a moot one. God will not be mocked.
Just believe that theres a worm inside your brain :)
ReplyDeleteWhy? Is that what you believe? :)
Delete