April 15, 2011
Santa Syndrome
We have discussed this subject of Santa many times here, but its catching on quite a bit as evidenced by what Ricky Gervais just said (strong language aside) on the Daily Show. So let's reference to this post in the future.
A few days ago I watched a video of shockofgod, who is discussing about this very subject many times in his videos and dubbed the term "Santa Syndrome" in 2006, he pointed out this video from MrBelrox that drives the point home well:
We hear it here all the time. People compare Santa to God as an example of what they don't believe but it just might go deeper then originally thought. Is this a sort of childish bitterness to those who, celebrated Christmas as a kid to a large degree only to, find out Santa is not real? I grew up in an Atheist's home and we celebrated Christmas big time. I remember finding out he was not real by my angry sister, I think, who wanted to get back at me for something. I don't remember what exactly about because there were plenty of those type of moments. Maybe I just thought, like God, Santa is fictional and accepted it through the tears of my young heart. God already didn't exist in my home, why not add tooth fairy and Santa to the fray. It made sense, it was an easy transition. When I was 23 I realized God is a reality and I was already over the whole Santa thingy long before that. A connection, read bitterness, was never made in my case.
Richard Dawkins's delusion of God and many other atheists have what appears to be Santa Syndrome. Its pretty straight forward and pretty well documented now, especially by shockofgod.
It appears that maybe, just maybe, that the kids where traumatized to find out about Santa that they questioned everything, real or not, at that young age. The birth of the true skeptic. Especially in what is to be perceived as a 'Christian' home. The kids were lied to, they were fooled, duped, and swindled to believe something that doesn't exist. Ricky Gervais said he was 8. That would seem to be a very impressionable age, we could see the anger that would rise up internally in a home that is supposed to be truthful. God said not to lie, and they lied about Santa! I am sure that runs through their little minds. They would, at that age, question everything of what is real or not. Also, its easily understandable to question as to who they can trust at that point. If not their own parents, who just lied to them about something sacred to them, then who? Secular teachers in the public schools? An 8 year old, who is now lost and distrusting, is fair game for the atheistic predators of the world, like the American Humanist John Dunphy.
Moral: Don't lie to your kids, embrace truth, no matter what.
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My entire family believes in god (I’m the only atheist – as far as I know) and they had this “Santa Claus tradition” since forever. When I was a kid – besides not believing in gods – I didn’t believe in Santa also (I was responsible for telling my 4 year old cousin that Santa was actually our uncle and I showed him that through the window – and I was 8 years old).
ReplyDeleteI already heard from a lot of hardcore Christians (specially from my family’s church) that I’m an atheist because I’m mad at god or I’m revolting against him or bitter– that’s my favourite (sarcastic laugh) – because I’ve never went through some hardship in my life. They have this idea that if – one day – I go through some really difficult time I won’t have the strength needed to deal with it by myself and then I’ll realize I need their god to help me out and then I’ll turn to their god – and of course – their church (how little they know…).
I ask them: “Do you believe in Santa? (or the easter bunny, tooth fairy; etc)”. They answer me “Of course not”. Then I tell them: “So it means you are mad/revolting/bitter against Santa (or the easter bunny, tooth fairy; etc)/the reason you don’t believe in Santa (or the easter bunny, tooth fairy; etc). it’s because you were never been in a really difficult situation. If – one day – you see yourselves in a pretty fucked up situation, you’ll realize you’re not strong enough to deal with the problem by yourselves and you’ll turn to Santa and believe in him (or the easter bunny, tooth fairy; etc).”
After that they never bother me again. Actually a cousin of mine agreed with me and left the church!!
Off topic:
ReplyDeleteDan:
You finally get that apology you wanted. It's on my blog.
Gosh, it's funny to see how believers think they can dismiss criticism or rejection of their beliefs by turning it into a "syndrome" - as if a person has to have something wrong with them in order not to give credence to myths and folktales and fairy stories.
ReplyDeleteEven growing up Catholic, I didn't invest belief in Santa Claus - our Christmas celebrations were generally quite religious in character, and Santa was accepted as just a seasonal imaginary character, perhaps a personification of the gift-giving spirit. Not, of course, that I thought in such terms as a small child!
The point is I can't remember a time when I didn't recognise the Santa stories as just that - stories. Fun to think, what if it were true? but I never bought into the idea that they actually were true. It was only much later in life - about the same age Dan was converting in the opposite direction - that I realised the stories about Jesus and all the heroes of the Old Testament were also just stories.
DD,
ReplyDelete>>that I realised the stories about Jesus and all the heroes of the Old Testament were also just stories.
Notice that you still associate the two together? ("were also just stories") There might be something to this syndrome thingy.
You're, once again, comparing apples and oranges. Stories about Santa is certainly not in the same category as historical narrative books, like the Bible. Yet you connect the two as if they were. The pattern of symptoms are emerging. Interesting.
One of the main differences between the bible and the stories about Santa is that the storytellers in the case of Santa will admit that they are only telling stories. With the bible, applying any thought will reveal that it is just stories; but the storytellers insist that it is true.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, Dan, you are continuing to apply the same deceptive techniques that prevented me from taking you at your word before.
ReplyDeleteI often compare god with Santa Claus (or other mythical/fictional/folcloric creatures) because they are both fictional (even though I stopped believing in gods first and then I stopped believing in Santa and the easter bunny and all the fictional characters that are part of most people's childhood).
ReplyDeleteBut - at least - Santa Claus has a advantage over god: he was inspired by a real person, Nikolaos of Myra, a bishop from 4th century. Now - gods in general (not only the abrahamic one) were inspired on who? No one. They are mythical entities created by humans.
Wait...I take that back...gods were based on us, they were created by us - the humans - at our image. That explains why gods have emotions and behaviours typical of human beings...
Well, the Ancient Greek deities were inspired by real people too. There is much evidence that the Demi-gods, like Herakles, were real solders. So it stands to reason that their parents were real too.
DeleteI'm confident that similar evidence could be found for Isis and Osirus if we dug deep enough.
As for 'Santa Syndrome', how does this account for atheists that derive from a non-Christian background? That's what I'd like to know.
bellecherie,
ReplyDelete>>I often compare god with Santa Claus (or other mythical/fictional/folcloric creatures) because they are both fictional...
And how do you KNOW this, or anything, for certain? Could you be terribly wrong about God not existing?
>>They are mythical entities created by humans.
So Jesus did not exist? is that your claim?
D.A.N,
ReplyDelete>>And how do you KNOW this, or anything, for certain? Could you be terribly wrong about God not existing?
Until this day, nobody gave me concrete evidence for the existence of god. Everytime I asked my family's church friends (and my family also) what evidence they have that prooves their god is real, they say the bible is evidence enough. Really? I'm sorry if I don't think a book which also says that unicorns are real is a trustable source of evidence for the existence of an invisible god - that according to the believers - live in place beyond space and time.
>> So Jesus did not exist? is that your claim?
Maybe he did. But I don't believe in the divine nature of Jesus. I don't believe he was god reincarnated as his son who decided to commit suicide on the cross to save human kind for the - past and future - sins and after three days rose from the dead and after paying a few visits to his disciples went up to heaven in body and soul.
Jesus was just a mortal/normal human being, like you and me.
But since almost every religion needs to have their "kick-ass rock stars".
Seriously, in terms of idolatry I don't see any difference between Jesus and Elvis Presley.
Now that's an interesting analogy. (and I agree with that in essence)
DeleteAhh Good old ShockofGod. Christians don't really come much more scummy and dishonest than him.
ReplyDeleteHere is a great little video exposing some of his dishonesty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1DWX3LUqBA
I'm in it as one of the people he lies about! Funnily enough this is how I found out that he lied about me.
BathTub,
ReplyDeleteWow...that guy from the youtbe video has a serious problem, he's totally mental...there's no other explanation
Obviously I agree, but it's amazing how transparently obvious the lies are, yet his fans just lap it up.
ReplyDeleteNotice that you still associate the two together? ("were also just stories") There might be something to this syndrome thingy.
ReplyDeleteYou're, once again, comparing apples and oranges. Stories about Santa is certainly not in the same category as historical narrative books, like the Bible. Yet you connect the two as if they were. The pattern of symptoms are emerging. Interesting.
I don't think your theory stretches as far as you'd like it to, Dan.
And do you accept the stories about King Arthur, Robin Hood, Romulus and Remus, Achilles, Heracles and other legendary figures as historical narrative? If not, can you explain how these are qualitatively different to the stories in the Bible?
Dan, this one seems like you phoned it in. Poor, even for you.
ReplyDeleteYes I am angry that my parents lied to me about Santa so I don't believe anything they ever said to me ever.
ReplyDeleteWhy limit it to just belief in God?
I'm glad you enjoyed the video! I have received tons of hate mail from Atheists accusing me of attacking Atheism. I see how its easy to make that argument but the purpose of my video was to expose the madness that is Atheism. God Bless!
ReplyDelete-MrBelrox
Indeed it's completely mad that we should believe magic claims without evidence!
ReplyDeletebellecherie,
ReplyDelete>>Until this day, nobody gave me concrete evidence for the existence of god.
That is dishonest. A more accurate way of saying that is: Until this day, nobody gave me evidence that I am willing to accept for the existence of god. Keep in mind, assuming that the Bible is not evidence for God because you do not believe God exists, is question begging.
>>Jesus was just a mortal/normal human being, like you and me.
Another knowledge claim? How do you KNOW? Discounting evidence to bolster your beliefs is quite dogmatic of you. Its why we call atheism a religion.
Freddies,
ReplyDelete>>Dan, this one seems like you phoned it in. Poor, even for you.
hehe, maybe. Building two win 7 rigs, one with a OSX dual boot. Talk amongst yourself. :7)
Lyle;
ReplyDeleteBased on what I saw in this blog madness is using a work of fiction aka the bible as guide for moral conduct; believing in a sky invisible daddy when you have no evidence to prove he exists; saying that god is good/loving/righteous even when he does terrible things; saying atheism is a religion; saying we have "santa syndrome"; the list goes on and on and on...
bellecherie
ReplyDeleteWhat terrible things has God done? Also, how does it feel being the punchline of a joke? Not very fun is it? I really am sick and tired of Atheist saying that people of faith are crazy and stupid because we "believe in a magical man in the sky." How about we turn the tables on YOU and show the world how sick and twisted leading a life with no moral values is. There is so much evidence out there that PROVES Christianity is correct and you choose to ignore it because you DON'T want to believe it and you DON'T want to give up your sinful ways.
Look Atheist, if you don't like my videos(which I will continue to make) don't watch them. Go back to watching Bill Mahar and Amazingatheist. Listen to them bash Christians and everything we stand for and laugh and laugh. Take care and God Bless!
-MrBelrox
D.A.N;
ReplyDelete>> That is dishonest. A more accurate way of saying that is: Until this day, nobody gave me evidence that I am willing to accept for the existence of god. Keep in mind, assuming that the Bible is not evidence for God because you do not believe God exists, is question begging.
It's not dishonest. Dishonest for me is to accept things without questioning. If you have evidence that your god (or any other gods) are real, ignore the bible for a minute and give me some real concrete evidence. Do you have god on a video tape? Did you take a photo with him with both you doing "hangloose"? Anything at all? If you do, can you give it to me, so those evidences can be tested?
Again, D.A.N, how am I supposed to believe that the bible is the concrete evidence for the existence of some god if this same bible (according to creationists) says the world and the universe were created in 6 days; that dinosaurs and humans lived together in the same era and that earth has 6000 years old?
D.A.N, if you had any evidence for the existence of your god you wouldn't need faith to support it.
>> Its why we call atheism a religion.
My goodness!!! Seriously dude, you should make me some serious research about it. Atheism is far from being a religion. For something to be considered a religion it must have the belief in divine entities; it must have rituals and prayers that allows the believers to have a connection and a commitment with that particular creed, faith and god (baptism, first communion, drinking the blood of christ and eating his flesh, for example); it must have rules and dogmas to keep their believers in line; there's a conscient dependency/submission of the believers towards their god or gods; usually the believer fear their god(s); sometimes there are rituals for this god to manifest; religions are institutions created on the idea of having a relationship with supernatural/divine entities.
Atheism is not a religion; it's a ideology where we don't believe in any supernatural/divine entity... And don't come with that "atheists create a god to suit themselves and it's called self 'cause that is old and predictable.
You - of all people - shoud know what religion really is, after all you're a part of one.
And YES if you at one time believed in Santa Claus then found out Santa was not real, then because of that questioned your faith in Christ, you DO have Santa Syndrome. I'm not going to listen to the famous atheist argument, "Just because B cam after A doesn't mean A was the cause of B." I have heard that about 20 times. In this case A did cause B.
ReplyDeleteI must get going now, but let me just say this. Your beliefs are okay. Mine are better. Take care and God Bless!
Lyle;
ReplyDelete>>What terrible things has God done? Also, how does it feel being the punchline of a joke? Not very fun is it? I really am sick and tired of Atheist saying that people of faith are crazy and stupid because we "believe in a magical man in the sky." How about we turn the tables on YOU and show the world how sick and twisted leading a life with no moral values is. There is so much evidence out there that PROVES Christianity is correct and you choose to ignore it because you DON'T want to believe it and you DON'T want to give up your sinful ways.
That's so typical of christians. This "deep down you deny god because you're angry at him" it's soooooo old! I listen to this since I was 10 years old or so from my family and their friends. You don't even make the effort to change your speech. An advice: change the speech; please...come up with another falacy!
I'm going to say to you the same thing I say to my parents: if you chose to be delusional, fine...but don't drag me into this.
What joke? What fallacies christians say about atheists never offended me or bothered me...I just ignore and stay away from the smell of their ignorance/intolerance. I don't care if you all say I'll burn in hell for "revolting against your god"; for "not accepting jesus/god in my heart"; "for not embracing the holy truth"; blah blah blah...I heard it all before and it didn't scare me a bit and it didn't make me change my mind. On the contrary, that made my atheism grow stronger.
I have morals and I do good for good's sake, not to get a place in heaven all for myself after I die (which is pretty selfish of christians, if you think about it).
How do you know christianity is correct? Because it happens to be the religion you blindly follow? If the right religion is Islam or Hinduism? Or Buddhism? Or Wicca? Or Spiritism? Or Umbanda, maybe Candomblé? Maybe the faith in Enki is the right one. Maybe Iemanjá is the right god (goddess, to be precise). If your god is the wrong one? Did you never stop to think that?
I did and that - among many others - was the reason I stopped believing in gods when I was a child.
- Sweety, the only video I watched was from the link Bathtub gave on one of his comments. Is it yours? I rarely watch videos made by christians. The only "christian videos" I watch is from that comedian Edward Current (he pretends to be a christian, it's awesome, you should see it to laugh a little...I mean, a lot!). Mostly I watch videos from Thunderfoot; The Atheist Experience, Jim Jefferies; David Cross; Richard Dawkins and Hitchens; Sam Harris; I watch Bill Maher every week, I watch some documentaries about the universe, evolution, Carl Sagan, Stephen Hawking...they are way more enlightening and they don't make me fall asleep like dull christian videos saying the same things over and over and over again...
Ignore what we say huh?
ReplyDeleteYou sure did a good job in the 6+ replies you have made to this article. You see folks ONCE AGAIN this proves how insane atheist are. They don't even realize what they are saying most of the time.
SHe just said she "ignores" everything Christian's say and doesn't let it get to her. Yet she responded to myself and other Christians in this article. WOW!
Atheism is MADNESS!
-MrBelrox
Lyle;
ReplyDeleteIf I'm mad you are too, 'cause you don't even realize what you say most of the times. Some guy making up lies, putting words those people never said and manipulating information in his video to call attention, to have some excitement is his life or because simply he has nothing better to do with his life (and being an hypocrite because he's disobeying one of the ten commandments, you know, the one that says "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor") and to make atheists look bad. Is that your video?
I can perfectly maintain a healty and mature discussion with religious people (like I did many times before). But when they start saying the same things over and over again, trying to convert me by shoving down their believes down my throat/trying to make me regret for being an atheist/making "divine emotional blackmail"/making up lies about things they don't understand and they don't even bother to look it up to see that atheism is not that "seven head demon" they like to portrait, then I ignore them.
The argument I'm having with D.A.N is a rational, mature one by my part and his part also. We are showing our point of views without attacking each other (it doesn't mean I have to agree with him and he doesn't have to agree with me). When the argument stays on a mature and polite level, I don't ignore it. That's what grown ups do, kiddo.
Kiddo huh? I think soon you will be eating those words if you ever find out more about me. But yes you DID contradict yourself.
ReplyDelete"What fallacies christians say about atheists never offended me or bothered me...I just ignore and stay away from the smell of their ignorance/intolerance. I don't care if you all say I'll burn in hell for "revolting against your god"; for "not accepting jesus/god in my heart"; "for not embracing the holy truth"; blah blah blah...I heard it all before and it didn't scare me a bit and it didn't make me change my mind. On the contrary, that made my atheism grow stronger."
followed by everything you said...
Its funny when Bill Maher does it. But it isn't funny when Christians do it. Doesn't the air of fairness taste SO DELICIOUS?!
Anyways, I hope you get over your obviously STRONG case of Santa Syndrome. God Bless!
-MrBelrox
Lyle are you really using the 'I'm only as bad as they are' as a defense?
ReplyDeleteLyle;
ReplyDeleteHoney...you christians have all the right in the world to make fun of atheists...the same way we have all the right in the world to make fun of you; that's called freedom of speech.
But the difference between atheists and christians is this: atheists don't care about the jokes, fallacies and nonsense things christians (and other people from other religions) say about us...usually we ignore them or even laugh too - because it's too ridiculous- I already laughed my ass off with Glen Beck and Bill O'Reilly (that tide comes in; tide comes out is priceless...hehehe); Sarah Palin and the pastor of my family's church. But I never felt offended. Because is what it is, nonsense, fallacious jokes. I just look at them (my family and the pastor) or I laugh or I walk away (sometimes both).
Christians (mostly the hardcore ones) - on the other hand - get all butthurt when atheists make jokes about their religion and their imaginary friend. Specially when we show the contradictions of their faith. Most religious people act like their creed are immune to criticism and jokes. Guess what kiddo, it isn't. The same way atheism is not immune to criticism and jokes. Critic and joke all you want. I don't care. You don't have to agree with my atheism and I don't have to agree with your christianity. But at least I don't threat people with hellfire or some menace that comes from a mythical creature they have no evidence whatsoever to support it or force them to share the same ideology/worldview I have.
Well all atheists get butthurt when Christians make jokes about the debunked hypothesis and atheist creation myth known as abiogenesis so you can't really talk here. Especially since all your arguments are fallacies and you trust in speculation and debunked concepts to explain the universe.
DeleteGood day.
Lyle;
ReplyDeleteOne more thing: I'll always be an atheist; to believe in some god again is walking crablike, specially after 18 years of atheism
Can someone please tell me what a 'Santa' is?
ReplyDeleteI've never heard of a 'Santa' is it going to send me to hell forever because I've never heard of it?
Is Christ comming on the 21st of May 2011 to kill us all?
ReplyDeleteANTZILLA
ReplyDeleteSanta will not send you to hell for not believing in him (he's not that evil/vengeful); but he will put a piece of charcoal inside your christmas' sock instead of a nice present if you don't behave well this year, lol
I can't wait for the backpedalling on may 22...
Lyle said... (to no-one in particular)
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you enjoyed the video!
I haven't seen it...
I have received tons of hate mail from Atheists accusing me of attacking Atheism.
No smoke without fire.
I see how its easy to make that argument but the purpose of my video was to expose the madness that is Atheism.
So 'expos[ing] the madness that is Atheism' isn't 'attacking Atheism'? I think you need a refresher course on basic comprehension.
God Bless!
-MrBelrox
May the force be with you.
D.A.N. said... (to bellecherie)
ReplyDelete... assuming that the Bible is not evidence for God because you do not believe God exists, is question begging.
Of course, assuming that the Bible is evidence for God because you believe God exists is also question begging.
Lyle said... (to bellecherie)
ReplyDeleteWhat terrible things has God done?
Of course fictional characters can't do 'terrible things' but, should your God actually exist, then, by your own professed worldview, God is directly responsible for every terrible thing that has ever, and will ever, occur.
Also, how does it feel being the punchline of a joke?
I do not know, why don't you enlighten us?
Not very fun is it? I really am sick and tired of Atheist saying that people of faith are crazy and stupid because we "believe in a magical man in the sky."
Maybe if you shed the delusion then...
How about we turn the tables on YOU and show the world how sick and twisted leading a life with no moral values is.
How is that 'turn[ing] the tables' on atheists? We have moral values.
There is so much evidence out there that PROVES Christianity is correct
I've seen the assertions, I've yet to see the evidence that actually demonstrates the truth of your claim.
and you choose to ignore it because you DON'T want to believe it and you DON'T want to give up your sinful ways.
I don't believe it because it's generally incoherent, fallacious and doesn't make a compelling argument for me to believe. You also can't call my life sinful without first demonstrating there is a God to sin against.
Look Atheist, if you don't like my videos(which I will continue to make) don't watch them.
I haven't...
Go back to watching Bill Mahar and Amazingatheist.
I haven't seen them either...
Listen to them bash Christians and everything we stand for and laugh and laugh.
I laugh at a lot of things - including the mockery of the Christian delusion - thanks for giving your permission to continue.
Take care and God Bless!
-MrBelrox
May the force be with you.
Lyle said... (to no-one in particular)
ReplyDeleteAnd YES if you at one time believed in Santa Claus then found out Santa was not real, then because of that questioned your faith in Christ, you DO have Santa Syndrome.
Has anyone actually claimed to have questioned their belief in God solely because they learned that Santa wasn't real? Or have they actually just pointed out that you have as much reason to believe in Santa Claus as you do in any deity i.e. none.
I'm not going to listen to the famous atheist argument, "Just because B cam after A doesn't mean A was the cause of B." I have heard that about 20 times. In this case A did cause B.
Translation: I have no response to your rebuttal so I'll simply repeat my assertion.
I must get going now, but let me just say this. Your beliefs are okay. Mine are better.
Define 'better', explain exactly how you evaluated each set of beliefs and what metrics you used to come to your conclusion, otherwise we may be forced to conclude it's just something you pulled out of your ass.
Take care and God Bless!
May the force be with you.
did you get a chance to watch that video on Shock of God Freddie?
ReplyDeleteDan:
ReplyDeleteEven if your god existed, the bible would not be evidence of it. Consider, the books about George Washington are not actually evidence of his existence. They could have been written as fiction or a legend. We believe they are real history. But they would not convince a doubter.
@BathTub - I haven't, but judging from what I've read about ShockofGod I'm sure I wouldn't be at all surprised to find he's as dishonest and scummy as you claim.
ReplyDeleteA video to get some laughs: Jesus vs Easter Bunny - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTe11XRdQmY
ReplyDeleteFor those who want more information on Shockofgod.
ReplyDeleteReynold;
ReplyDeleteShockofgod is worse than I thought...
I almost had a stroke when I saw that he believes the Declaration of Independence are rights given by god(among other batshit crazy things). Besides this guy has some serious persecution mania...like all atheists in the world are out to get him...I feel sorry for him in a way.
I don't see how the Santa Syndrome discussion is relevant to the question of gods' existence. I mean, let's suppose for the sake of argument that every Atheist is suffering from a hardcore mental illness. Even if that's true, that doesn't mean there is a God.
ReplyDeleteIt's also true that many people become theists for completely non-rational or even illogical reasons---but that has no bearing whether theism is actually true or false.
>>Even if that's true, that doesn't mean there is a God.
DeleteI completely agree but that is an irrelevant thesis to the conversation. I was merely pointing out an observation. That is all. What people take away from it, I hope, is maybe the possibility of something in the deep psyche going on here. Hopefully some clarity on the part of the atheists and what not to do to your children. Lie.
Because we all don't want to raise atheists, now do we? Yuck! :7)