October 30, 2011
It all started with Alex daring me to go onto his podcast in early September at my Facebook group. After many conversations in the group, he did not pull any punches to get me on, and also posted about it. I sent him Sye's way and what transpired was a barrage of podcasts that was highlighted before. By the grace of God, something happened though.
I just witnessed something great and I wanted to share. I listened to David Smart discussing things with Alex and Jim (as a part 5?) and it was jaw dropping and can be dissected here for months.
This was what I prepared as a comment, on Jim's blog:
I agree with David Smart completely. David almost even said what I am about to say, though I believe he was cut off before it could of been driven home.
Basically, I am a YEC as a result of my belief and understanding of Scripture. I trust God. It does NOT matter if you believe in Old earth or young earth. In fact this was one of the very first things I covered when I started my blog. You must understand that ALL of these gentlemen, in the debate I highlighted, are Christians. Old or Young...it doesn't matter. We can both tally who was right or wrong on various subjects in Heaven. But that will not ultimately matter. Just like your gripes and complaints rant about contradictions of the Bible. That is all these things are, gripes and complaints.
The difference between me and Smart, as far as what matters, is absolutely nothing. We both believe in Christ. Even if a Christan believes in evolution, as I do not, that STILL will NEVER ever, ever, affect their salvation. They can still believe in evolution, and be wrong or right, YET be completely and soundly saved. Christ is ALL that is required to be saved.
NOW, the difference between me and you Jim, is a completely different animal. I am a Christian and you are an Antichrist. (1 John 2:22, 2 John 1:7)
So no matter what you believe, be it evolution, old earth, etc. You will still go to Hell. I will not, even though I find out I was completely wrong about everything I thought was truth. (Biblical Creationism)
The point that needs to be driven home is its a non issue and an Ignoratio elenchi.
"You're accusing me of a coherent worldview" ...brilliant!
highlighted his work in a past post, but this discussion brought clarity to a whole 'nother level. Thanks for posting that conversation.
Mr. Smart is a sweet gentle man, and I see Christ living in him and in his world. But I am still very concerned for the two of you, Alex and Jim.
And what was all the falling all over the feet of David because he mentions your "autonomous human reasoning"? That is the paradigm of TAG, and presuppostional appologetics, at the very core so I was perplexed as to why, though I know, you then understood it and acknowledged it?
I say God was opening your heart to truth. Embrace that! I could be wrong, but I remain hopeful though. Don't deny it.
If "Fruit of the Spirit" is an ever-growing capacity of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness and self control in the life of the believer, then I believe we all witnessed that in David Smart. That goes for even you two, if you are intellectually honest. I was doing nothing but praising the Lord for those moments. I KNOW you saw the Spirit within David. I almost, almost, cried for both of you. I was cheering for the two of you at the very least. Then I saw the push back that was the desire of denial coming out. You want to deny there is a God, that you knows exists. David did a wonderful job at explaining EVERYTHING to you to realize the truth of God. You admit that. You STILL said that will not get you to believe in God. We AGREE. It would take a miracle for you to believe.
People do not convert people. The arguments are not intended to be convincing, we're merely commanded to speak the truth, 'convincing' is out of our hands.
Does God exist?
Is there a Creator of creation? THIS and THIS alone is the primer to your Atheism and your atheistic worldview. Not any of the fodder you are injecting. The semantics of old or young, evolution or Creationism are NOT the issues you're dealing with yet. Its diversions.
BTW, you cannot say "no" to the question as we pointed out numerous times. You cannot say "I don't know" as we pointed out many times also. That leaves...
So if you're an Atheist because you believe that evolution, and an old universe is truth, then you're an Atheist for all the wrong reasons ( that is if there is such a thing as a good reason, which there is not).
I am wondering why even bring the age of things up? Granted its good for discussions between Christians as intellectual stretching or exploration, in celebration of God, but we all STILL take Scripture as truth. You do not. You deny it all.
Being a YEC will never affect my salvation, even if I am wrong, but your denial of Christ certainly will. Please repent.
I just wanted to make this a post for myself to refer back to, often. It was one of the best I conversations I was a witness to, and I am sure you would agree if you take the time to listen and understand what was being said.