When I said "The same kind of thinking that has corrupted and now bankrupted our economy."
My thoughts were on Barney Frank, another Democrat void of any morals and has the exact characteristics as Calvin holds in the strip. The Cheerleader behind Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac who shot down any regulations and even the soulless Greenspan who was the cheerleader that loved adjustable rates and yet has a 30 year fixed himself. I am sick of all of them, yes even Bush!And don't get me started on the biggest lair of all of them, McCain, who was so against all these Pork ear marks so much he made a campaign slogan about them.
Then before you can even blink McCain rallies the troops to do that exact thing to the tune of 150 billion more 'sweetener' just to get the 700 bailout passed. Are you kidding me? He just lost the election with that one vote and it doesn't matter how much Sarah Palin is liked.
BTW did you see John Stewart compare McCain to Gallum the other day? Hilarious!
Both Obama and McCain voted for that 700b Bill filled with Pork. This is truly the saddest point humans can be in with all this perceived knowledge, no one is smart enough to have common sense and the simple wisdom of God. Chris Hedges was right when he said "there is nothing in human nature or in human history that points to the idea that we are moving anywhere."
Go read Proverbs everyone, please! Then go get saved. Time is running out.
Perhaps not surprisingly, we agree on much regarding the economic crisis, but if you weren't blaming Atheism for the problem, you still haven't explicitly said as much, and both the original statement and this "clarification" have done nothing to reduce the ambiguity. Perhaps this only means that god has inspired you...
ReplyDeleteReally -- the economic crisis sucks, but it is not a result of Atheism. Indeed, I'd wager my right ARM that the vast majority of the financial moguls involved are professing Christians. We can argue as to their true nature all we want, but they can hardly be atheists if they profess belief in a god, yes?
It's not like blatant exploitation is a new theme -- it's probably the only universal experience throughout human history since the concept of money was invented. Hell, the concept itself was very likely an invention based on exploitation.
The love for money is the root of all evil.
I disagree in principle, but the gist is undamaged -- the will to exploit another for financial gain is indeed a very base evil.
For the record, I have neither a love for money nor a will to exploit another -- for any reason.
In my view, Atheism has nothing to do with the ethics of Capitalism (or the complete lack thereof, as it were), nor to do with exploitation in general. Exploitation is compatible with Atheism, I admit, but it is distinctly separate. Before you start proclaiming this concession a victory, however, recall that exploitation and religion are a match made in, you guessed it, human history.
The love for money is the root of all evil.
The bible says it -- that is, it was recognized that even the religious could be corrupted by the desire for wealth and financial independence. You may not, therefore, make silly claims that Atheism is somehow to blame for this economic crisis.
Rather, willful exploitation writ large is to blame. It is a class of action which is heavily endorsed by the so-called "conservative" community, and it is central to the Western notion of the Free Market. It is understood that in order to profit -- which is, of course, the goal -- someone must be compelled to pay more for something than it is worth. Trading stocks, bonds, and securities is based on getting someone to pay more than you did for the same intangible thing. Having this exploitation itself based in large part on the fraudulent practices of predatory lenders has simply amplified the outcome(s).
The most disgusting thing of all is the evidence of "golden parachutes" being given to many of the perpetrators.
That, my friend, is criminal.
Relax your rhetoric against Atheism, if your complaint today is the economic crisis -- it's not our fault. Many atheist groups don't even ask for money from their members, and if they do, it's only to [barely] cover the costs of maintaining the organization. There are no pastors, no buildings, no property, no associate pastors, no secretaries... You get the picture.
You seem to know how to spot the responsible parties (some of them, anyway) regarding this crisis, but you still seem oblivious to the fact that it has nothing whatsoever to do with Atheism or atheistic "principles". It is Capitalism, pure and simple.
Congratulations. You have debunked Capitalism.
--
Stan
Dan: what stan said. I do applaud your realization that Bush, despite being a born-again Christian, is not necessarily looking out for the best interests of anyone other than his obscenely rich friends. But how in the ever-lovin' blue-eyed world can you blame the financial crisis on atheists? Not that I'm an economist, but in my humble opinion, the major problem can be expressed in one word: greed.
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid there's no easy solution to this problem, either: people of all times and places, all religions or lack of such, and all forms of government are susceptible. The only thing I know of that helps is education: bringing up kids to be in love with themselves not their things, in love with their fellow humans and other animals, and in love with their precious fragile planet.
I've read Proverbs, Dan, but I think more to the point in the present situation is Matthew 22:39: love thy neighbor as thyself. In today's global village, everyone is our neighbor. And if you are greedy, you cannot love your neighbor.
Stan,
ReplyDelete"but they can hardly be atheists if they profess belief in a god, yes?"
Satan himself knows there is a God even. If what you claim is true then there is 20% less atheists in the U.S. then we think. Your numbers are dwindling.
"The most disgusting thing of all is the evidence of "golden parachutes" being given to many of the perpetrators."
So you agree that mankind is unfair? That evil is running the nations even? That we need someone to eradicate the evil in this world? Hmm, who has the power to do that?
.
Stan I want you, as well as Zilch and many others, on my team. I want you all on the side of good not evil. You or I are no better then a CEO screwing everyone out of their life savings or that guy raping children or that police officer that is stealing coke from the drug dealers for his own habbit. We are all wicked and if this universe was designed to embrace the wicked then why do we both feel these crooks need jail time? We all have a conscience and know right from wrong, that's why. God made a way where we can chose sides and fight against evil and promote the good. You have decided to join the wicked and fight the good, why? You stand side by side with liars, thieves, and adulterers fighting against a good God. Why?
I am fed up and sick of this world I hate the outcome that mankind put us all in. I am sick of seeing innocent woman and children getting harmed in other countries and we do nothing about it. I am absolutely fed up with mankind, we all deserve hell for eternity and I am so grateful for God pulling me out of the mud and cleaning me off. I am grateful for Jesus for literally saving my dumb ass. I am loyal to the end for the concept of eradicating evil once and for all. It is an army that I will join and continue to be a soldier of God for my life. I see the light. Evil is doomed to fail and lose. Thank God for that! Right?
Yes atheists are to blame for all this desecration of morals. It moved right over to the democratic party and hasn't stopped until we are now a financially and morally bankrupt country. It started in our schools and hasn't stopped. Yes you are for the army of the losers the ones that will be defeated by Christ himself. Please allow me to be a recruiter and sign you up for our army, for goodness sake.
Zilch,
"In today's global village, everyone is our neighbor. And if you are greedy, you cannot love your neighbor."
Ah well said my friend are you also ready to be a soldier for the righteousness?
We need good soldiers like the two of you.
Hopefully waiting for signatures.
Dan wrote:
ReplyDelete"You or I are no better then a CEO screwing everyone out of their life savings or that guy raping children or that police officer that is stealing coke from the drug dealers for his own habbit."
"No better"? Dan... how can you say this about yourself?
I absolutely couldn't live my life thinking that I was just as bad as a child molester, or a corrupt drug addict, or worse: a politition or CEO. *shudder*
I'd prefer to think that I can hold myself above these people, and work to improve the world for myself and my decendants. I am capable of this on my own: I don't need supernatural intervention to improve the world in my own small way.
PS: Oh no, the word verification says "petbny". He's coming for me.
You or I are no better then a CEO screwing everyone out of their life savings or that guy raping children or that police officer that is stealing coke from the drug dealers for his own habbit (sic).
ReplyDeleteActually, Dan, I am better than those characterizations, and my statements and positions I submit as evidence in my favor. If you feel that you're just one unrestrained evil urge away from raping your child then that's your problem, and I sincerely hope you seek help. The first thing to do, clearly, is to remove yourself from your household and have yourself voluntarily committed -- just in case tonight is the night you fail to combat your virtually irresistable urges to rape and consume your child.
Satan himself knows there is a God even.
...so, Satan would therefore not be an atheist. See how that works?
Your numbers are dwindling.
Not so much, Dan -- those are your numbers which are dwindling -- especially since you discount so many professing Christians as false-converts.
Oh, and I like how you link to yourself, as though your opinion holds weight outside this arena. Try as I might, I was unable to locate a current link to the survey you cite, so I have no way of determining what exactly is meant or implied -- I cannot even access the data. If you have a current link to offer, feel free to do so, but I was able to find this link (from the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, accessed 10.7.8), which shows that "unaffiliated" persons total 16% of Americans, and that only 1.6% of Americans identify themselves as atheists.
So what? Are you appealing to the masses? Are you appealing to the majority? I'm not choosing my philosophical stance based on a popularity contest. I'm basing it on rational, reasoned thought coupled with evidence (where available).
Yes atheists are to blame for all this desecration of morals.
This is so preposterous it's undeserving of the response I'm providing for it. Your idiot Israelites were in the very presence of god, according to you, yet they were content to combine their gold so they could build an idol to worship.
They were not atheists.
The bible is riddled with anecdotes illustrating the capacity of pious humans to commit atrocities, so don't start blaming Atheism -- a philosophy which says nothing regarding moral codes -- for the evils of the world. You do nothing but expose your own bullshit, by refusing to entertain the notion that religion -- especially Christianity -- is deserving of blame for any evil.
I really find it ironic that you seek to blame Atheism for evil, despite your core belief that Satan is ultimately responsible for evil, and your candid admission that Satan cannot be an atheist. So according to you, Atheism is the mechanism by which a theist (Satan) spreads evil, despite the fact that you also believe that Atheism is a relatively new philosophical phenomenon.
It makes me wonder just how far you'll go to blame Atheism, and just what sort of evidence you plan on unveiling...
...Of course, since you're bound to request a padded room and straight-jacket so you don't inadvertently rape your children, maybe we'll have to wait extra-long for that evidence.
--
Stan
Dan, if you want world peace, then I'm already on your team. Believe it or not, there are atheists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Pagans, and all kinds of others, all working for a better life for their children. If believing in Jesus helps you through the day and inspires you to help others, I've got no argument with that. Didn't someone once say "by their fruits shall ye know them"?
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of fruits: you say "Yes atheists are to blame for all this desecration of morals." I'll ask again: do you have any evidence for this? Merely asserting it does not make it true.
Stan and now Quasar,
ReplyDeleteI knew Stan would of taken that stance when I said 'You and I are no better...' We think we are good when we break God's laws daily. I am sure a thief considers himself to be good compared to a rapist and that rapist considers himself good compared to someone that murdered a person and that murderer considers himself a good person compared to a serial killer and I am sure that serial killer considers himself good compared to a democrat. When we compare each other by each others standards we all seem to be good "at least I am not as bad as he is" mentality. We must be compared to the righteous standard of God's Law.
Ray put it best when he said: "A little girl was once watching a sheep eat grass and thought how white it looked against the green background. But when it began to snow she thought, "That sheep now looks dirty against the white snow!" It was the same sheep, but with a different background. When we compare ourselves to man's standard we look pretty clean, but when we compare ourselves to the pure snow-white righteousness of God's standard—His Law, we can see ourselves in truth, that we are unclean in His sight. That Law is the holy standard by which humanity will be judged on Judgment Day."
We are all filthy wretched sinners and all need a Savior. So please stop crying that you are better then others and look at the mirror called the Ten Commandments.
This is the real deal and God will come soon to eradicate the evil. Please, please with sugar on top, don't be on the side of evil when He comes.
Zilch,
"Dan, if you want world peace, then I'm already on your team."
I think I am slightly more radical then that, I want to eradicate evil completely. If that is world peace then fine but I don't believe so. We can all get along but I don't even what evil thoughts anymore.
you say "Yes atheists are to blame for all this desecration of morals." I'll ask again: do you have any evidence for this?
No evil was around long before this fad of atheism. But just like Barney Frank being a cheerleader for Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac, atheists are cheerleaders for evil and worse Satan. You are either for or against God and saying God doesn't exists is a win for Satan, IMHO.
This is the real deal and God will come soon to eradicate the evil. Please, please with sugar on top, don't be on the side of evil when He comes.
ReplyDeleteWhy didn't "God" do that in the first sodding place? What did he do when the devil rebelled? Did he isolate him and all of his followers in hell right off the bat?
Nope. He put them on earth where he was to later make man. It's as smart as placing your kid in a playground where you know gang members hang out, then wondering why the kid gets into trouble.
Hey Dan: my view is baby steps. First world peace, and environmental sustainability, then we can concentrate on lesser evils. Not that we don't concentrate on lesser evils all the time, the current one in our family being our son Adam's (20 years old) problems in getting together what he wants to do in life. Truth is, problems of all magnitudes mix together in our lives. All we can do is the best we can.
ReplyDeleteReynold
ReplyDeleteWhy didn't "God" do that in the first sodding place?
He did. He told Adam not to touch that part of the garden and he did anyway. You know how we all need to see evil for what it is to see that we don't want it. We are all rebellious and independent. I guess we must see for ourselves the genocide in Rwanda was wrong. That the travesties that are happening here in the U.S. by evil men need to stop. I guess God wants us fed up, John 12:25 comes to mind.
Zilch,
ReplyDeleteI perfectly understand but evil, to me, festers like a horrible virus. I like God's plan to show us all how horrible all of it is so none of us want it anymore and the ones that do still want it can have it, just not in this world.
Your son Adam seems to be doing just fine. I didn't know what to do at age 20 either, did you? Did you have your entire life mapped out as to how you would turn out by that age?
Remember life is the journey not the goal.
When I was 21, just out of the military, I wanted to play instead of go straight to college so I took a life guard position at a community pool. Met a woman that would be the kind of woman I would want to marry someday. She was so kind and gentle and loving and never spoke bad about others (like some of the other mothers did like a sewing circle). At the end of summer she gave me a card with a Gospel tract in it, (my first one) which eventually led me to being saved. The most important thing in all of life. Plus I eventually did marry a woman just like her but Patty is far better.
I tell my kids that I could care less what they do for a living as long as they make it to Heaven. The only thing I press is making it to the finish line saved. The most important thing in all of our lives.
What good is it to gain the world only to lose your soul?
I can't imagine having a 20 year old I will be close to 60 when my boy is that age. I am a late bloomer. If I starting having kids at the age when you did, I would probably have over 20 by now so it's for the better that I started so late. God knew that I need to grow up a little before I polluted the earth with kids raised improperly.
I am sure a thief considers himself to be good compared to a rapist and that rapist considers himself good compared to someone that murdered a person and that murderer considers himself a good person compared to a serial killer and I am sure that serial killer considers himself good compared to a democrat.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm sure the democrat considers himself good compared to a republican.
I'm in Australia, I shouldn't even know the names of the American political parties! Oh, the shame.
You've posted this before, and my reaction now is the same as it was back then: The serial rapist/murderer can repent, turn to Jesus and be allowed into heaven, whilst his innocent 5 year old victims will be sent to hell for all eternity if they don't.
Of course, this is all irrelevant to my belief in God: if He had evidence in His favor, I would believe even if he ate babies. But it is part of the reason I don't give christianity any special status above other religons.
Dan:
ReplyDeleteMorality is a continuum. Even given that analogy were valid, declaring myself better than a rapist would be like desclaring the wool of the sheep whiter than the grass. It's a true statement.
Now, I think that it could be useful to see where your god's law falls on the continuum of morality. Well, according to that law, anyone who kisses your god's rear end gets into Heaven; anyone who doesn't is cast into eternal torment. (Failing to kiss the rear-end is one of the "crimes" that can only be "forgiven" by kissing the "rear-end.") That looks pretty low on the continuum; and it is something I think I am better than.
Pvblivs,
ReplyDeleteI have no idea what Bible you are reading but that isn't in mine.
Have you ever watched Paul Washer?
If not it is worth the hour out of your life.
Oh, but it is yours, Dan. I admit I'm being figurative with the "kissing rear-end;" and I trust you to take that figuratively rather than literally. However, I consider it an apt description for the complete turning over of your life to Jesus as "lord and savior." Failing to do so is labelled "self-worship" and therefore idolatry.
ReplyDelete