According to Times Online,"The two children chosen to front Richard Dawkins’s latest assault on God could not look more free of the misery he associates with religious baggage. With the slogan “Please don’t label me. Let me grow up and choose for myself”, the youngsters with broad grins seem to be the perfect advertisement for the new atheism being promoted by Professor Dawkins and the British Humanist Association."
"Except that they are about as far from atheism as it is possible to be. The Times can reveal that Charlotte, 8, and Ollie, 7, are from one of the country’s most devout Christian families"
"A spokeswoman for the BHA admitted that the images had been taken from a photo website, and said it was unaware of the religious beliefs of the young models."
Silly Dick.
Also a valid point was made in a follow up article. "It’s a fantasy to imagine that children can be raised in a philosophically neutral environment without some dominant world-view."
"Contemporary secular humanists are largely unable to explain to children why their freedom and autonomy have any significance, why their life has any meaning – and this is why the exaltation of freedom proposed in this poster feels a bit hollow. If you really want your children to be free, you need to tell them why their freedom matters, and help them appreciate some of the values they might pursue. And to do that, you need to use at least a few labels."
Forcing Dick's agenda on children is dogmatic as any religion out there. From a Washington Post article "The American Humanist Association has a real problem with the public expression of religion. Yet, it's website says the organization is celebrating "a new kind of holiday tradition." The AHA is holding "the first-ever nation-wide humanist holiday" to "promote the humanist movement and our ethical life philosophy." The organization has its own philosophy, holidays, and is on a proselytizing campaign to convert others to follow its belief system......sounds a lot like a religion to me."
Atheism is a religion indeed.
A god doesn't necessarily solve the meaning and purpose problem. A parsimonious, plain-vanilla theism could hold that a god created humanity, period, without stating that this god created us for our convenience. That many theists want to burden the god concept with gratuitous beliefs about our meaning and purpose just reflects their narcissism.
ReplyDelete`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'
ReplyDelete`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.'
`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master -- that's all.'
Yo Dan. First of all, if giving kids freedom to choose their own religion is advertisement of atheism, then I suppose that means atheism would generally be the choice pick by neutral children, and I can see how that scares the shit out of you. Bummer.
ReplyDeleteJust because the kids in the picture are Christian doesn't mean that they can't be used in such a promotion. In fact, the promotion could be viewed as a way to free kids like them from the oppressive mindset parents sometimes throw on them.
That "valid point in a follow up article" is true to a degree, but the dominance of that one world-view can be lessened to allow a little bit of say from other worldviews. But I'm sure you fundies would hate that.
Don't ya just love Christian propaganda?
I guess it has become necessary to have all the pastors and fundamentalists try and debunk atheism. YOU CAN FEEL THE GROUND TREMBLING BENEATH YOUR FEET. Your whole world is being questioned by people you can no longer influence.
ReplyDeleteRay Comfort and Kirk Cameron are NOT helping your cause. They are complete buffoons who peddle what xtianity is trying to sell.
Maybe the pastors and priests have chosen the wrong vocation and will soon be out of a job. Don't worry about it though, you can always join the world's fastest growing religion, Islam. If you hate the atheist more than Islam they will gladly welcome you all to their form of World domination.
Good luck with that.
Mariano the bullshit artist:
ReplyDeleteYet again, atheists are collecting “amazing sums” during a time of worldwide recession not in order to help anyone in real material need but in order to attempt to demonstrate just how clever they consider themselves to be—while actually loudly, proudly and expensively demonstrating their ignorance and arrogance—need any more be said?
This shit again? When you xians actually do what your "lord" tells you to do, which is to sell all you have and give to the poor, then you can play your self-righteous routine.
Until then, pike off. You xians have your billboards, shit loads of them, your expensive churches (all tax-free of course), your own effing universities, radio stations, "creation" theme parks, and yet you're still whining about atheists who fucking dare to speak out at all?!
Screw you. Once you xians take down all your billboards and crap, then we'll do the same. Deal?
Now, Dan, as to that B.S. about "atheism being a religion", didn't we deal with that already?
Ah, I forgot: About Mariano's claim that "Dawkins supports" the atheist Camp Quest: apparently not. Unless of course, Mariano only means that Dawkins may like the idea. But the man has apparently had no input nor offered financial support for Camp Quest.
ReplyDelete"Contemporary secular humanists are largely unable to explain to children why their freedom and autonomy have any significance,
ReplyDeleteOutright bullshit.
why their life has any meaning
Again...outright bullshit. If nothing else, read Carl Sagan's "Cosmos" and you'll find something. Why do you people always insist that your life only has "meaning" if your god exists? Can't people have meaning to themselves and each other (their loved ones for instance) WITHOUT your "god"??
You've got a lot of brainwashing work to do, Dan, if you're going to try to convince actual atheists of that crap, as opposed to your theistic audience who already buy that baloney.
– and this is why the exaltation of freedom proposed in this poster feels a bit hollow
Hah. Christians complaining about a lack of "freedom"? Who's got the belief system that's enforced by an eternity in hell if you don't follow it? Who is the religion that has their holy book saying to "take every thought captive"?
If you really want your children to be free, you need to tell them why their freedom matters, and help them appreciate some of the values they might pursue.
Easy. This is the only life you get. After that, it's over. Enjoy it while you can, and don't throw it away on a bunch of fear-addled superstitious nonesense that will hamper your intellectual freedom (creationism), and unfairly demonize those of other viewpoints. Pretty much any religion does that.
So, how is xianity going to try to take credit (yet again) with a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with it?
Ah, stupid me. I forgot to post a link to a site that mentions some either secular or non-theist charities.
ReplyDeleteSome of the links are defunct, some aren't.
Breaking news
ReplyDeleteMembers of congress, also members of the right wing fundamentalist group, "The Family" are connected to the new Uganda Law that proposes the death penalty for gays.
Just thought I'd let ya know Dan since you once told me you'd never see an American wanting a law to "stone" of execute gays.
Here is the link:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/11/25/132255/09
Reynold,
ReplyDelete>>Ah, I forgot: About Mariano's claim that "Dawkins supports" the atheist Camp Quest: apparently not.
Thanks for the link and in reference to this comment made in that linked article:
"Richard Dawkins is not setting up Camp Quest UK. The word “groom” is misleading, offensive and inaccurate."
Do you think they find it misleading, offensive and inaccurate that I called it Death Camps?
Fuck yeah, but you people aren't known for your honesty, so what can one do, really.
ReplyDeleteAre you not dishonest yourself when you claim that someone is being dishonest when they are obviously joking, Reynold?
ReplyDeleteDan +†+ said...
ReplyDeleteAre you not dishonest yourself when you claim that someone is being dishonest when they are obviously joking, Reynold?
Only if I knew you were joking. With the wacked-out things you people say it's hard to tell.
Poe's Law and all that. Though, as a joke, it's kind of in bad taste to compare a kids camp to a concentration camp.
At the bottom of this post is a link to another post titled "Atheism is Definitely a Religion!" I encourage everyone to read all the comments in this post, as it contains number points that Dan completely failed to defend before moving on to a new topic. The fact that he would link back to this post as if it were still a good point demonstrates again that, as I said before, Dan is a black hole of semantics.
ReplyDelete>>Though, as a joke, it's kind of in bad taste to compare a kids camp to a concentration camp.
ReplyDeleteObviously it was a play on words, but that indoctrination camp is literally guiding the children to their death. They will be pushed away from God and if the atheists have any say in it, which they don't, they would keep kids from God their whole lives.
Fortunately, God gave us an assignment to reach out to the lost (children), we are here to preach the word to them and to tell them the good news in spite of the indoctrination to atheism.
We will continue to give them gospel tracts and tell them the good news. Satan and evil (atheists) have declared war on Salvation and we are always up to that challenge. God will guide the lost sheep home in spite of your efforts. He guided me away from my atheism that I was indoctrinated to as a kid. So how does it feel to be on the losing (lost) team?
"Satan and evil (atheists) have declared war on Salvation and we are always up to that challenge."
ReplyDeleteWhat the fuck? Dan, I don't declare war on "salvation", I declare war on Christian bigotry and the indoctrination of children into a religion that demonizes all ways of life that don't quite agree with it.
This is a perfect example of it. What, do you think we all secretly worship Satan?
I don't want indoctrination of atheism either: I want people to make the choice. If they make it well I think they will come out to atheism. But I HIGHLY doubt that an unbiased neutral child thinking logically and without emotional sway would chose such a religion as yours.
I prefer not to have "evil Christians" waging war on the minds of children like you always have. If you didn't have the kids, your religion would fall and fail miserably. Hopefully, you will get the chance to see the truth of that matter during your life.
Bigotry deserved a smackin'-good post ;)
>>But I HIGHLY doubt that an unbiased neutral child thinking logically and without emotional sway would chose such a religion as yours.
ReplyDeleteAs pointed out in a past post there is no such a thing as a neutral position when it comes to God.
Dan +†+ said, quoting me:
ReplyDelete>>Though, as a joke, it's kind of in bad taste to compare a kids camp to a concentration camp.
Obviously it was a play on words, but that indoctrination camp is literally guiding the children to their death.
So then it wasn't an "obvious joke" on your part, as you claimed, "play on words" or not.
So you're the dishonest one, dan.
They will be pushed away from God and if the atheists have any say in it, which they don't, they would keep kids from God their whole lives.
For fuck's sake, Dan...if your god actually existed, here's all he'd have to fucking do: Have angels show up at the camp. Why not? He has them show up in the bible.
Instead, as you say:
Fortunately, God gave us an assignment to reach out to the lost (children), we are here to preach the word to them and to tell them the good news in spite of the indoctrination to atheism.
Doesn't the fact that it's always only ever been humans "spreading the word" indicate that maybe it's just a human-manufactured religion in the first place?
As for "indoctrination": We're not the ones who try to stifle free inquiry by threatening people with eternal fire, Dan. You people are.
Now for some fun, brainless gloating from Dan:
God will guide the lost sheep home in spite of your efforts.
Even assuming your superstition is right, it seems that you're not smart enough to realize just how wrong that statement is. If that statement was correct, then no child would ever reject biblegod.
Instead, you act as if every child who goes to those camps will all change their mind and become xians.
Good luck with that.
How's it feel to be on the losing team?
As for "indoctination"...how does that photo with the slogan "please don't label me...etc" count as indoctrination? Isn't letting people look at the evidence and choosing for themselves kind of the opposite of the "indoctrination" that you accuse us of?
ReplyDeleteHow is this camp any different from the shitloads of xian camps out there when it comes to "indoctrination"?
Dan Dan Dan...
ReplyDeleteI thought you could do better than that. It is not possible to have an unbiased opinion, true. That is because either you have to think maturely and logically about everything, including asking questions such as "Why did God have to die as a sacrifice to himself to appease his own wrath?", and "Why does an almighty god want us to either worship him or burn for eternity?", or you have to blindly walk to Jesus "like a child" and try as hard as you can to prove the "beauty of Christianity" along the way.
Meanwhile, while you are doing the latter, you build up an emotional attachment to your invisible friend, making it fairly hard for you to get out of your predicament. Part of the turning point away from Christianity for me was when I noticed that I thought about what God would say before I "felt him tell me."
So yes, you're right. Which is in fact all the more of a smack against your religion.