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I've often felt that if fundamentalists would actually take the time to understand what we know (or maybe just our ideas) about space and time, they wouldn't keep using the term "naturalism" as a [pejorative]"
I responded with: Wem,
Thanks for the 10 dimension explanation link. I found it an interesting way of explaining such a complex hypothesis (theorem?).
Also, if you think about it, this makes perfect sense that God can actually be Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent with 10 dimensions at His disposal. You see, science will reveal God if He doesn't first.
Does this also show the importance of free will? Without it, we wouldn't have any need for additional dimensions (5th). The possibilities of different situations simultaneously would be irrelevant without free will. So even the dimensions would fall apart without it. We can kind of understand why God gave us free will. He knew we would choose evil but it was necessary for the universe to work properly. Deep stuff!
Great Job, dude!
Dan wrote Does this also show the importance of free will? Without it, we wouldn't have any need for additional dimensions (5th).
ReplyDeleteI still don't understand your rationale in segueing into the topic of free will.
Dan,
ReplyDeleteDo slaves have free will?
All who sin are slaves to Satan.
And there is no "I" in grace.
God chooses us, no one chooses Him.
Folding dimension and alt universes are fantastic abstract fantasies and nothing more.
God's word declares the end from the beginning and there are no alternative paths or possibilities.
Will, yes. Free will, no.
I exhort you to read what RC Sproul and John MacArthur, Luther and Calvin, Saint Paul have to say on the matter of free will.
You will surely tie yourself in knots but you will not find free will there.
So, Dani'El, fi I do not have free will then am I being directed by God to tell you I think you are a little "out there?"
ReplyDeleteWhere is "out there"?
ReplyDeleteCalifornia?
Froggie,
ReplyDeleteYour will is captive to your desperately wicked heart.
Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
Dan,
ReplyDeleteJust saw this video of Ray Comfort debating a lame atheist at Huntington Beach pier, and he says the same thing.
No free will, as all who sin are slaves to Satan.
It's kind of near the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvQR4VbkWag
Oh, and I saw the video whilst lurking at Raytractors.
ReplyDeleteBaruch Hashem
Dani' El
No shame in that, Dani'El, you should speak up more, I'm sure there's a few people who'd like to chat about free will with you there.
ReplyDeleteIf I have no free will, I'm not responsible for my actions.
ReplyDelete---
PS. I still don't understand the transition from physics to free will...
Wem,
ReplyDeleteThe problem is if you are a willing servant of Satan.
Yes, all who sin are slaves to Satan. But what if you love serving him and doing his will?
Loving your sin?
Then you are indeed responsible.
Yes a tensions exists between predestination and the responsibility of man.
I heard a good sermon on it by someone, maybe Alester Begg?
Or MacArthur?
I'll try to find it.
And on Dan's segue. I think he is talking about the divergent paths or possiblities in the video?
Obviously I disagree as to it's validity, but I think there was a fork in the road kind of bit there.
Maybe that's what he means.
-----------------------
Expat,
The reason I don't post more on Raytractors is that most of the threads are over the top blasphemous or just plain boring/ juvenile mockery.
Y'know like posting a photo of a transvestite and saying, "This is Ray in 20 years! Yuk Yuk!"
Or some creep who gets off sexually by running over people with his car.
To be honest, I don't understand why you guys keep such company.
From what I know about you guys, you don't seem to belong there either.
Even after lurking there, I fell like taking a shower! ;)
Here tiz-
ReplyDeletehttp://www.lemoynebaptist.org/SovVsResp.htm
The reason that you or I may still live with problems in this area may largely be due to a reluctance on our part to recognize the existence of mystery and to allow God to be wiser than us.
ReplyDeleteA reluctance to subject ourselves to the truth of Scripture. An exalted notion of human logic which says "if I can't understand it, I won't believe it."
Oh, I loved this.
freed,
ReplyDeleteAmen, Begg is a great preacher.
All glory to God.
Dani'el wrote Yes, all who sin are slaves to Satan. But what if you love serving him and doing his will?
ReplyDeleteThen you're not a slave.
Wem,
ReplyDeleteI am a willing servant of the Living God.
I would have it no other way.
In levitical law, the slaves had to be set free on a sabbath year.
But the slave also had the option to stay for life if he so chose.
I so choose.
As I love my Lord and Master.
Satan does not offer that freedom to his slaves, but they so love their sin, they would not leave anyway.
Froggie,
ReplyDeleteEl Dani said...
Your will is captive to your desperately wicked heart
But since evil is a function of wickedness and the cardiovascular mass, you are considerably less wicked than the rest of us, being only a frog.
Frodo be with you.
El Dani said...
ReplyDeleteYes, all who sin are slaves to Satan. But what if you love serving him and doing his will?
Loving your sin?
Then you are indeed responsible.
You've yet to explain the link between the enjoyment a sinner derives from his act of sinning, and his responsibility for it.
You've said in no uncertain terms that a sinner is a slave to Satan regardless of his mental state. You also suggested the slaves lack free will. You would therefore hold that sinners lack free will. Their actions, by definition, are not the result of their decisions. You could say that their mental state is unconnected to their physical state. Since enjoying sinning is part of the mental state, it is unconnected to the act of sinning, since the sinner cannot help his actions. In law, this is called automatism. Automatons are not responsible for anything.
Didja read this Frodo?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.lemoynebaptist.org/SovVsResp.htm
Btw, I'm going to share a testimony on my blog soon about an encounter with Satan I had in the late 90's in Oakland, CA. He was very pleased when I innocently called him, "Golem".
Long story.
Dani'El,
ReplyDeleteI just spent a little time reading some of the posts on your blog. It's obvious you are sincere in your beliefs, and it's obvious Blogger is not going to be the agent of their undoing. So, I ask myself, am I wasting my time? Possibly. But do I still get a masochistic sense of enjoyment from engaging in futile arguments? Absolutely.
Suffice to say I'll keep my response shortish. The physics analogy was clever if misdirecting. We think of light acting in terms of both waves and particles because we have observed it to do so. The contradiction offered up by (1) God being sovereign and (2) man being responsible is not the result of observation; it's doublethink damage control made necessary by depressing attempts to reconcile a Bronze Age text with the standards of logic and consistency expected of modern scientific papers.
But what do I know. I'm only the modest keeper of a rarely visited satirical blog. Shed a tear for my humbled vanity?
Frodo-
ReplyDeleteit's obvious Blogger is not going to be the agent of their undoing.
What do you mean by that I doth wonder aloud?
I also appreciate a good sparring partner no matter how futile. It's just good exercise.
Frankly, I have observed both the Sovereignty of God and the depravity/responsibility of man and I find the analogy genuine.
As I do the bible obviously.
I think you might agree that if SF and LA are judged as I say it will be (per luke 17) then this will be proven soon. I pray it has a good effect on you.
This means all of it, the bible, God, Jesus and the cross, Satan, heaven and hell, ALL TRUE.
The long tedious argument will be over, but then what?
And since you were so gracious as to come over to my house, I will return the gesture and go see your humble blog.
I would love to receive your comments on my blog as I can see that you have an interest in these things.
Shalom,
Dani' El
Dani'El,
ReplyDelete"No free will, as all who sin are slaves to Satan."
Thanks for taking me on that path, I am researching more into that now. Very interesting.
Speaking to FrodoSaves: "And since you were so gracious as to come over to my house, I will return the gesture and go see your humble blog."
I try to visit all of your posts and Dani'Els dream and talks of single currency was very interesting. 2030 huh? Sure will be an interesting life to come. I see jail time in the future for most of us believers. Lets hope that just isn't the case.
Frodology satire is too witty for me to add anything yet but that doesn't mean I don't drop by. BTW the drawings are a good accompaniment, are they by your hand?
I could literally spend my entire life reading blogs and I find many extremely interesting, especially on the subject of God, but the family kind of gets perturbed if I did so for too long so I do what I can. I am listening to everyones input and I have learned quite a bit since starting this DA experiment. Maybe that was the goal in the first place. The family is calling, chow for now.
Sorry: that was Ciao for now
ReplyDeleteGod's grace increased to you and your family Brother Dan,
ReplyDeleteAll glory to the Father and His Holy One, Messiah Yeshua.
Wem,
ReplyDelete"I still don't understand your rationale in segueing into the topic of free will."
I was entertaining a thought experiment. As Rob Bryanton, I too was interested in the middle ground - a place where philosophy and physics, spirituality and science can find ways to agree that they are really thinking about the same things.
Currently I am reading about God 2.0 and Quantum immortality. Stretching that muscle. Bryanton is quite a character but an interesting mind.
Dan wrote I too was interested in the middle ground - a place where philosophy and physics, spirituality and science can find ways to agree that they are really thinking about the same things.
ReplyDeleteWithout exception, this seems to me to be the most rational, sensible idea I've seen you write here in the last 6 months.
Cheers Dan
You mean to say God is a creature existing in higher dimensions than us? Then there is possibility of other creature doing so. That would make a new dimension. So, we will end with 11 dimensions.
ReplyDeleteAs you go on defining meaning to a dimensions, there would be two more dimensions which finally make containing everything and hence the GOD cannot exists or there would be infinitely many gods.
Please check your logic.